Zimmerman verdict - Page 21 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MTUpower · #**301** 07-15-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruchase

Based on who's account? GZ could've made that up to justify his pursuit.

AFAIK, there were no eye witnesses until after GZ and TM were already fighting.

Absolutely. Since we have no other you are free to make up any scenario you wish. Care for the "I have a gun and I'm suspicious of you but I'll get real close and piss you off so you can break my nose and then full mount me and pound my head" scenario?

Which one sound more plausible to you?

ruchase · #**302** 07-15-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

well, the police believed him, do you beleive them?

Are these the sampe police that that also decided it wasn't necessary to administer a drug/alcohol test on GZ?

Botnst · #**303** 07-15-2013, 10:46 PM

If Z had been blind drunk it wouldn't have mattered. What mattered was that he was in reasonable fear of grave bodily harm or death.

Expert witness testimony supported the argument that M was beating Z's head into concrete. What is a reasonable response to that? FYI, the victim does not have to demonstrate actual harm, only a reasonable fear of it.

That is the standard.

ruchase · #**304** 07-15-2013, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Absolutely. Since we have no other you are free to make up any scenario you wish. Care for the "I have a gun and I'm suspicious of you but I'll get real close and piss you off so you can break my nose and then full mount me and pound my head" scenario?

Which one sound more plausible to you?

Just so I understand this - GZ stalks TM...TM runs....GZ pursues...then TM attacks GZ (based upon GZ's account). GZ uses deadly force when he's getting the crap beat out of himself.

TM is dead - GZ is inconvenienced. TM is unable to give his account (obviously).

So now I ask you - if someone chased you, and you felt threatened, would it not be reasonable for you to change your strategy and instead try and premptively attack your 'stalker' so that you could get the upper hand?

Assuming no one is dead, self defence/stand your ground could easily be applied both ways. In fact, if they fought it out, its very likely they would either both be arrested, or both released by the cops once all was said and done.

Botnst · #**305** 07-15-2013, 11:02 PM

I dunno. Depends on if I could outrun the following guy. I might ask, "What's up?" depending on circumstances.

There is no easy answer. It all depends on the circumstances of the moment.

--------------

When the six jury members in the George Zimmerman trial went in for deliberation, three were for acquittal, one was for second-degree murder and two were for the manslaughter charge, one of those jury members told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday.

As they reviewed the evidence, the jurors came to feel that Zimmerman truly feared for his life when he pulled the trigger, she said.

The juror's identity was not revealed but was identified as "B-37," on Anderson Cooper 360°.

She said that she wanted to remain "cautious" and didn't want her face shown. Earlier Monday, literary agent Sharlene Martin said she had signed one of the Zimmerman jurors to write a book about her experience on the panel, and also identified that juror as B-37, which was the juror's official court designation during the trial.

That juror said Zimmerman was "a man whose heart was in the right place," but he went too far and did not use good judgment.

Zimmerman, 29, a neighborhood watch volunteer in a gated townhouse community, shot and killed Trayvon Martin, 17, on Feb. 26, 2012.

Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, claimed he shot the unarmed African-American teenager in self-defense.

That juror said she didn't think the shooting was racially motivated and that Zimmerman would have reacted the same way to someone of any race.

She and the other five members deliberated for more than 15 hours before finding Zimmerman not guilty of second-degree murder and manslaughter Saturday.

She added that Zimmerman did have the right to carry his pistol, but he should have stayed in his car that night and not have gotten out to follow Trayvon.

She did think that Zimmerman did have the right to own a pistol.

"I think he has every right to carry a gun," she said. "I think it's everyone's right to carry a gun" as long as they use it responsibly.

The juror said that she thinks it was Trayvon threw the first punch in the subsequent physical altercation that night and that she believed Zimmerman's account of what happened that night.

"I think George was pretty consistent and told the truth basically," she said.

She said that both sets of parents likely believe that it was their child calling for help on the 911 tape. "They are your kids you want to believe they are innocent," she said.

As for the juror herself, she was "sure" that it was Zimmerman calling for help.

She said that the laws they had to consider were "very confusing" so they took their time to think through it all carefully. Then, after they gave the bailiff their decision, they cried.

"It was just hard thinking that someone had lost their life and nothing else could be done about it," she said. "It's a tragedy that this happened."

Juror: Zimmerman should have stayed in his car

Dudesky · #**306** 07-15-2013, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.C.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area...

Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

Dispatcher: OK... Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

Dispatcher: OK--you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse...

Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the--he's near the clubhouse right now?

Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Dispatcher: OK.

Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.

Dispatcher: Late teens ok.

Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.

Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok

Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman: Okay. These *******s they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** he's running.

Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance...****ing [unintelligible]

Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok

Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?

Zimmerman: George...He ran.

Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?

Zimmerman: Zimmerman

Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?

Zimmerman: [redacted]

Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.

Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?

Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?

Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?

Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted]

Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.

Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area.

Zimmerman: Thanks.

Dispatcher: You're welcome

No laws broken here until Trayvon punched GZ in the nose and tried to kill him.

Quote:

CNN
"I think George Zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place, but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhoods and wanting to catch these people so badly that he went above and beyond what he really should have done. But I think his heart was in the right place. It just went terribly wrong," she said.

If anything, Zimmerman was guilty of not using "good judgment," the juror said.
"When he was in the car, and he had called 911, he shouldn't have gotten out of that car," she said.
She also said she believes Martin threw the first punch in their confrontation.

Quote:

"He had a right to defend himself," the juror said about Zimmerman. "If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him, or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right."

ruchase · #**307** 07-15-2013, 11:25 PM

Botnst - agreed. GZ should've stay in his vehicle and all this would've been aviodable.

Personally, I strongly felt GZ was going to be found guilty; however, I understand why he was found innocent, and respect the jury's decision. It's not the events that lead up to the incident, but rather the actual incident, and who initiated the attack that matters now.

The issue to reconcile is whether this could've been aviodable - which I believe it very easily could have. The right to bear and carry a concealed must come with a greater responsibility; such as a responsibility for the individual to reasonably avoid putting themselves in a situation where they would need to use their weapon.

GZ pursued TM and put himself in a situation where he ended up using his piece. Personally, I don't believe he should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon.

Txjake · #**308** 07-15-2013, 11:35 PM

TM was 210 ft from where he was staying, why didn't he run home?

P.C. · #**309** 07-15-2013, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

TM was 210 ft from where he was staying, why didn't he run home?

Perhaps he didn't want Zimmerman to know where he lived.

Dudesky · #**310** 07-15-2013, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

TM was 210 ft from where he was staying, why didn't he run home?

Doing some chronic in the rain until Georgie came along.

t walgamuth · #**311** 07-15-2013, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

What you meant to ask and what you asked were two completely different questions. I can only answer what you ask since I failed mind reading school; just ask my wife.

Now I'll answer what you asked, second time around. Did I watch "as much as they showed"??

Tom are you on something or are you drinking lately? Who in this world could do that? Since the trial was on multiple channels that showed varying portions of the trial no one could watch "as much as they showed" unless you TIVO'd all the channels and then reviewed every channel. I'm sure some poor sap paid by the networks did that but not me. So no I did not TIVO all the channels and then review each channel. But then I didn't opine on things which I did not watch or know something of.

I just figured you must have watched pretty much the whole thing since you were calling me out as being an ignoramus on the subject!

Dudesky · #**312** 07-15-2013, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.C.

Under what authority does a neighborhood watch member have the ability to stop an individual?

Being as he never stopped him.........he could use citizens arrest statutes.

t walgamuth · #**313** 07-15-2013, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Yeah, I've got a gun so let's get in a fist fight.

I've seen some stupid people with guns but I've never seen or heard of THAT stupid. Is that how you think it went down? Really? Let's take a poll and guess how many agree with you....

A good friend of mine has a goofus son who did pretty much that...went to a bar packing, got liquored up, got into a fight, drew his gun on the bouncer and did a couple of years in the pokey over it....lucky for him he didn't shoot anybody.

t walgamuth · #**314** 07-16-2013, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neumann

read this on another forum...

None of these things would have happened if when asked "who are you?" Trayvon has simply said, "Hi, Im Trayvon Martin, My step dad lives here and I am walking back to his house" In a neighborhood that had 13 robberies ALL COMMITTED BY YOUNG BLACK MEN, in 8 months, it is not unreasonable for the local neighborhood watch to ask a question. It is unreasonable for that question to be met by a sucker punch and a MMA beatdown. I guess the lesson here is If your going to beat up the little hispanic guy, make sure hes unarmed first.

..this may or may be an accurate assessment of what transpired....we will never know

If Zimmerman approached a white guy and the fore mentioned robberies were performed by white guys would that be racism on part of Zimmerman, what if they were Asian and the crimes were committed by Asians, same question....

1. do they really know all the robberies were committed by black men? Seems unlikely that would be a known fact.
2. How do you know what Z said to TM?

t walgamuth · #**315** 07-16-2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

TM was 210 ft from where he was staying, why didn't he run home?

How do you know he didn't try to?