Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-05-2001, 02:02 PM
DESHAFFER1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Metal In Transmission Pan

1998 S320 BLACK OPAL

My son recently purchased a 1998 S320 from the dealer in southern Illinois with 74K miles. A week later he took the car for maintenance to highly reputable shop in west Nashville - not the dealer. Immediately on the rack they noticed that the the "slip disc" (?) was shot. They replaced that, informing us that the result of not replacing would/could be a ruined transmission.

We thot he was in good shape until the transmission oil pan was removed to reveal discolored transmission oil (brownish) and small metal pieces. We were told that some were from the clutch.

We then took the car back to the dealer to make a complaint who informed us of the following:

1. You shouldn't take the transmission oil pan off until 100,000 miles. They say that MB issued a bulletin to that affect.

2. Metal shavings in the transmission oil pan are normal and nothing to worry about.

3. The car drives fine so there's not problem.

4. Dealer refused to remove transmission oil pan to look at condition, simply saying, it was not necessary and they've never seen a bad S transmission!

We are confused. The shop here says, Well, since they are not going to fix it, drive it until it goes out, but change the filter and remove the shavings so they don't go back up and cause further damage.


Who's right? What could/should be done?
He can still get a warranty for $2500 covering power train but he is leaning against that.

Thanx for any advice.

Dave Shaffer
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-05-2001, 02:24 PM
Subman's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: South Florida
Posts: 447
I cringed at the title of your post.
Metal in the trans is never good. I am not a expert but it is not normal, trans fluid
needs to be clean at all times, a single grain of sand could hurt a trans.


2. Metal shavings in the transmission oil pan are normal and nothing to worry
about.



and if metal shavings in the oil pan are normal then why do they suggest that you
change the filter "so they don't go back up and cause further damage" that makes no
sense, they are contradicting what they have said earlier.

You are correct have the problem fixed.
Oh yea what was replaced was it the torque converter?

Subman
__________________
Factory trained Mercedes-Benz Technician
Look At My Website
-2002 C32
(E420 has passed away)
The best way to contat me is e-mail.


Last edited by Subman; 12-05-2001 at 05:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-05-2001, 02:31 PM
Registered Diesel Burner
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,911
I'm going to guess that the independent mechanic replaced the "flex disk" which is essentially a rubber piece in the driveshaft line that absorbs some of the drive train shock. Did they give you the old part back?

Brownish transmission fluid and a light coating of metal shavings on the bottom of the transmission pan are not all that uncommon, especially if the pan has never been off (nor the fluid changed) in 74K miles. By "metal shavings" I mean almost a powder consistency. And maybe flakes.

I've seen and heard enough mis-diagnoses to think that I would get two and three opinions before any kind of major work on a car such as yours.

If you want an opinion over the Internet and won't hold me to it ( ) I'd say in this case the dealer is right. And I would consider asking the dealer to take a look at the flex disk to make sure a good part was put in as a replacement.

And, I'm speaking not from specific experience with your car but from a basic transmission maintenance experience.

Ken300D
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-05-2001, 02:32 PM
DESHAFFER1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Replaced Part

I thought it was called a "slip disc." It's round, flat and has several holes in. It is tied in with the transmission. If the dealer had even put the car on the rack, they would have seen it. It took the shop here just a few minutes. All he did was walk over, grap the around aournd and see that it was incredibly loose. The part was definitely broken. As I said in my complaint to MB dealer, you might expect this from a Ford, but an S320 MB?!

And thanx for your reply. I'm really pretty ignorant of car parts, etc., so I can't actually answer your question accurately.

My feeling is the same as you. I cringed when the mechanic brot the pan over to my son and me and showed us and said, We have a problem. I have always been told to change the trans fluid and the filters.

The lack of MB willing to accept this as a problem to me is incredible. Obviouslly it has something to do with the almighty dollar!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-05-2001, 02:38 PM
DESHAFFER1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Flex Disc

Ken, yes, I think that is the correct name. We do have the part and it is indeed bad. I saw them take it off and put the new one on.

I wish the metal were just "almost powdery." However, I can remember seeing one metal part that was probably a half inch long, maybe a sixteenth or eighth wide. I can't rememer how many there were, but I think that was the biggest one. The Nashville shop said they were from the clutch.

Thanx.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-05-2001, 02:46 PM
Subman's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: South Florida
Posts: 447
If I am correct the flex disc does not come in contact with trans fluid, so that would not be the reason for the metal shaveings. So the dealer may be right they did not touch the trans fluid in any way. Now that I think about it metal can be normal but not good.

Subman
__________________
Factory trained Mercedes-Benz Technician
Look At My Website
-2002 C32
(E420 has passed away)
The best way to contat me is e-mail.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-05-2001, 04:34 PM
Ali Al-Chalabi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,837
The transmission in the 98 is claimed by MB to be a permanent fill. However, there is much debate on this if you search the archives. If the dealer were to follow MB recommendations, there would never be any reason in the lifetime of the car to ever remove the pan.

I had the transmission fluid in my car changed at 70,000 miles to be on the safe side. The only approved fluid is the MB fluid and it is $15 a quart, never use anything else besides this in the tranny.
__________________
Ali Al-Chalabi

2001 CLK55
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel
2002 Harley-Davidson Fatboy
Merlin Extralight w/ Campy Record
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-05-2001, 04:39 PM
DESHAFFER1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Starmarked

The dealership wanted 10k to starmark the car and that would only last for 26k miles (to 100k), so my son didn't think that was a good investment.

He can still get a warranty but he's not leaning that way either. He can get powertrain warranty for 2500.

I'll be able to give more specifics on metal fragments this weekend. The mechanic just put everything back the way it was and added needed fluid. There is no record or evidence the pan was ever removed. Some fragments I would call sizeable, but I can't remember how many.

We had hoped the dealership would pull the pan, but they refused to do so because it isn't at 100k miles!

We were with the mechanic when the pan was removed at the Nashville shop. They are extremely honest and have a great reputation here. (I wish I had personally found them about 5 years ago before going thru 4 other shops).

I'm not sure what you mean by "quantify?" The owner of the shop, when I told him that MB would do nothing said, Well, you might as well just drive it 'til it goes out. Change the filter, clean the pan, and who knows, it may go 10k or it may go 100k." So he didn't recommend going out and buying a transmission.

Thanx.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-05-2001, 04:42 PM
DESHAFFER1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Permanent

Yes, that's it, Ali.

And they did fill with correct fluid.

How do I get to the archives section you are describing?

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-05-2001, 05:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Saugus, CA USA
Posts: 1,989
Did you say they said "clutch?"
__________________
5 speed '91 190E 2.6 320,000 mi. (new car, fast, smooth as silk six, couldn't find any more Peugeots)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.5l Turbo Diesel 266,000 mi. (old car, fast for a diesel, had 2 others)
5 speed '01 Jetta V6 (new wifes car, pretty quick)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.2l Turbo Gas 197,000 mi. (wifes car, faster, sadly gone just short of 200k )
5 speed '83 Yamaha 750 Maxim 14,000 mi. (fastest)
0 speed 4' x 8' 1800 lb Harbor Freight utility trailer (only as fast as what's pulling it)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-05-2001, 06:51 PM
DESHAFFER1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Clutch

Yes, I did say clutch. Why?

The Nashville shop said they believed that some of the metal was from the clutch.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-05-2001, 06:54 PM
DESHAFFER1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
MB policy

tkamiya -

I'm not a mechanic but the 100K policy scares me. But it's a great selling point if you're a car salesman!

I think it'll all work out. The Nashville shop said the engine was very dry. We both asked, Is that good or bad? He said, Good. Most of them have leaks!

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-05-2001, 08:23 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
Just a guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,492
The 722.6 fully electronic five-speed transmission is fill-for-life if you're LEASING the car.

I didn't believe a word of it, and when I pressed my Zone Rep, he admitted that if it were HIS car, he'd change the fluid and filter ever 90,000 kilometers (about 55K-miles).

I had the dealer do it at 90K, and the fluid was new-looking and no debris in the pan. They know how picky I am, and allowed me to see.

$10,000 to Starmark the car? That would have been enough to send me running! I think the W140 runs about $3000 tops. They must feel that there is LOTS of work that has to go into the car, and it's $$ they can't recoupe from the selling price, so they're trying to get the prospective owner to pay. Ridiculous!

Does anyone know, is Stu Ritter in Illinois? You need to find a good shop, ASAP!!
__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-05-2001, 08:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Saugus, CA USA
Posts: 1,989
Because

Automatic transmissions don't have clutches, and neither have muffler bearings.
__________________
5 speed '91 190E 2.6 320,000 mi. (new car, fast, smooth as silk six, couldn't find any more Peugeots)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.5l Turbo Diesel 266,000 mi. (old car, fast for a diesel, had 2 others)
5 speed '01 Jetta V6 (new wifes car, pretty quick)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.2l Turbo Gas 197,000 mi. (wifes car, faster, sadly gone just short of 200k )
5 speed '83 Yamaha 750 Maxim 14,000 mi. (fastest)
0 speed 4' x 8' 1800 lb Harbor Freight utility trailer (only as fast as what's pulling it)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-05-2001, 09:25 PM
Ali Al-Chalabi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,837
Automatic transmissions do have clutch packs. I know that the auto tranny in my C280 has 25 clutch discs total.

In addition, with the new automatic transmission the brake bands are replaced by brake clutch packs. I believe this tranny consists of 3 planetary gearsets with 3 clutch packs and 3 brake packs.
__________________
Ali Al-Chalabi

2001 CLK55
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel
2002 Harley-Davidson Fatboy
Merlin Extralight w/ Campy Record
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing transmission fluid & filter. lin Tech Help 6 01-07-2006 06:29 PM
Transmission pan still leaking 1988 300sel Tech Help 13 02-26-2004 11:54 AM
Is our 300TE auto transmission OK? Expert opinions sought Greg in Oz Tech Help 3 02-25-2004 06:21 PM
correct transmission pan torque (NM) 1988 300sel Tech Help 1 02-04-2004 05:57 AM
Leak from rear of transmission. Pan Gasket? Steve190E 2.3 Tech Help 2 04-10-2001 02:50 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page