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  #31  
Old 03-24-2002, 12:32 AM
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Marc:
I'd get those plugs out of there and go with the F8DC4's, the R in that plug number indicates a resistor plug. These engines require a non-resistor plug.
Gilly
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  #32  
Old 04-01-2002, 12:03 PM
Marc Lenssen
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spark plugs not oke?

Hello Gilly,

Thanks for the warning. I stil have the previous plugs and they were fairly new so exchanging should be no problem.

What could happen if I keep driving the `R`plugs?

Sofar the engine seems to run fine on them, although I have the idea that the tips are too light grey.

I have driven her for some time now after clicking the coil in decently and I havent had her hickup or stall on me again. Every thing runs smooth and fast.

Please let me know about the plugs. Its a ***** of a job being an amateur but if I risk damaging anything Iīll do it straight away.

Thaks and have fun,

Marc
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  #33  
Old 04-02-2002, 01:06 AM
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Marc:
I don't think the spark will be as good with a resistor plug in there. About the worst that could happen is to fry a coil, but it's probably safe to keep using what's in there, especially since it's running good now. If you get bored and have the time to change them, fine. I wouldn't consider it an emergency.
Gilly
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  #34  
Old 04-02-2002, 02:02 AM
Marc Lenssen
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sparks and spare time.

Hello Gilly,

Thanks for the fast reply, I was already worried about possible damage.

If the risk is that I fry a coil, expensive enough, I think that I wil have time very soon to change the sparks back to the non resistor ones.

The stupid thing is that Bosch promotes the R ones, at least these ones, for my car and says that these are the new stock plugs for mercedes. I will ak my local Benz shop.

Thanks again and have fun,

Marc
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  #35  
Old 04-03-2002, 12:58 AM
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Marc;
The general idea is for them to cover as many models as possible per type of sparkplug. They are willing to take the risk that no damage will be done. Obviously they won't recommend a plug that will cause direct damage (impact with the piston for example), but other than that, if they think thay can convince enough folks to buy "triple gold plated, platinum tip, rhoedendrum core, solar influx capacitor equipped with mother-of-pearl insulators" spark plugs to make a profit, they will do it.
Bosch makes great spark plugs, but they have a marketing dept. just like the rest of them. Stick with the plain ol' "Super" and you'll be better off.
Gilly
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  #36  
Old 04-03-2002, 07:27 AM
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I agree with Gilly.
Bosch is marketing their Plats to the point that we are having to run all over the place just to find Super/Copper. And we all know how some Benz Hate Plats !!
My thoughts on Resistor plugs for Benz with Distributorless Ignitions [ and I notice KYB is also recommending Resistor], is
that because each coil fires 2 plugs at the same time, you are now taxing the coil because the resistance is double. KYB's info page claims this is insignificant, but does not mention 2 plug firing.
[Also something to remember for those who like to open the gap past spec. Total gap is double for one coil]
So I stay with the copper and have been satisfied. [ and they cost less- which is not my motive].
Benz claims [ and I agree ] that the plug firing on the exhaust
stroke requires less power from the coil [ no load] in the "Waste Spark" type ignition. But I think adding additional un-neccessary resistance that has to be asorbed regardless of which stroke the engine is on is not for me......

I might go along with using a resistor plug and get rid of the resistor /boots that seem to give so much trouble , but doubleing up on the resistance does not make any sense except to the Marketeers ..
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  #37  
Old 04-03-2002, 10:54 AM
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more on throttle actuator

Gilly,
I follow all these threads on the M104 motor to learn what I can. I saw with interest your comment on the throttle actuator and its relation to cruise control. My CC has been erratic and has not been working lately. It started working again sometime ago, but I had no occasion to use it. When I tried again recently it wasn't working again. I've already had the wiring harness replaced in the course of getting the head gasket done because it wouldn't run right after my mechanic buttoned it up. The car ran perfectly when I bought it (52k "low miles"). The oil leak just bugged the hell out of me so I had it done. It seems that disturbing the equilibrium on the car unearths all these little bugaboos. The only other symptom which seems to be throttle related is that a couple of times it wouldn't start on the first try in the morning. It felt like it was about to get flooded, but cleared up immediately after. I attributed it to some bad gas which I've had with some local stations but now I'm starting to think about this expensive part. I know it has similar problems as the wiring harness. Are any of these symptoms indicative of early failure in the throttle actuator? Should I leave well enough alone?
Thanks for all your help,
Joe
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  #38  
Old 04-03-2002, 01:47 PM
Marc Lenssen
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SUPER PLUS SPARKS

Hello Gilly and Dalton,

Thanks both for the firm language. I just exchanged my new Super plus (copper cored, not platinum) for the standard ones.

The local Benz shop told me that i could use the new super plusīs without risk. Arguing that if Bosch tels you it is oke for a 104 engine it is oke for a 104 engine.
They attributed the R in the product description to a radio interference block. So it had nothing to do with a resistorplug that might damage the coil but with a plug that does not make noise over the radio.
Whatever, just for my piece of mind I will drive the standard ones for a while. If they perform thesame as the new and improved ones I will just use the standard ones.

Thanks for the advice and Iīll keep you posted.

One more question: at 4000 rpmīs the engine gives a real kick. I do not know what causes this real surge in power. Is it the ignition, the cpu or the air intake that allows for so much extra power. Since I do not use the revs over 4000 very much i would be looking for a way to get this kick down to 3000 rpmīs or even lower.
Anyone any bright ideas?

Thanks a lot and happy motoring,

marc
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  #39  
Old 04-03-2002, 02:26 PM
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<>

It is a combo of the variable valve/cam timing, the ecu controlled ignition, SFI fuel management, and a big breathing feature-the
variable tuning of the intake manifold . There is a damper in there that actually changes the lenght of the intake for the higher RPMs. Top that with the 24 valves and you have a pretty powerful engine for a 6.
Don't know on the Euro's, but US is spect. at 217.
They are also known for having a flat torque curve, but suffer dead stop accelleration cuz of a 2:65 rear ratio [ which I like for cruisin.] That is helped a little with the 1st gear start.Considered a nice improvement of the earlier 124s.
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  #40  
Old 04-03-2002, 02:41 PM
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< >>

I have not seen this plug here in the US, but R plugs are generally 'Radio Interference" plugs. And how they accomplish that is by adding Resistance to the plug.
Perhaps the new ones have some new tech that allows interference blockage without the resistance-- That would be nice.
Seeing that you have some of these and they are out of the engine, it would be interesting to do an Ohm reading from the tip to the electrode and see what you get , Do you have a meter???
The NGK page list there R plugs at 5K ohms.
Thanks ,
Arthur
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  #41  
Old 04-03-2002, 03:21 PM
Marc Lenssen
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R plugs.

Hello Arthur,

so the radio interference plugs are in fact resistance plugs.

Nice trick up Mercedes sleeve and bad advice at that.

I changed back to the non R plugs tonight and just took her out for a spin. No loss in performance at all so Iīll leave them in nice and quiet.

I do not have an Ohm reader but I do visit people that probably do. Iīll leave on of the R plugs in my car ( the trunk that is) and try a reading when I can.


Thanks for all the info,

Greetings,

Marc
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  #42  
Old 04-03-2002, 03:26 PM
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Marc,
Cool,,, Anytime you have a chance to get one read, post it up..
just curious,
Thanks
Arthur
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  #43  
Old 04-04-2002, 12:42 AM
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Marc and Arthur:
I can comment just on the resistor issue for now:
We're talking about the same thing when it comes to resistors and radio interference. The reason for the resistors is to reduce (or suppress) radio interference from the secondary ignition system. It is my opinion, and I believe this will be confirmed by consulting a Bosch spark plug catalog, that the "R" in a Bosch plug indicates a resistor type plug. Again, the only purpose I am aware of for the resistance in the plug, or in Mercedes case resistance in the secondary ignition wire end, is to suppress radio interference. There is no advantage, and in my mind a disadvantage, to having resistor spark plugs combined with resistance designed into the secondary ignition wiring.
Gilly
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  #44  
Old 04-04-2002, 07:50 AM
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Gilly.
I totally agree. R allways meant Resistor plug to me and one thing I always like about Benz ignitions is they never opted for the easy out of going with resistance wires.
So adding another 5K resistance to the plug when it already has a 2K resistor sitting on top of it is a waste of ignition power.
On the older Benz, the Euro resistors were 1K , but the US versions had to have 5k in order to satisfy the US Gov. regulations on radio supression.
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  #45  
Old 04-04-2002, 10:35 AM
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Arthur:
I'm not really sure if the gov't has anything to do with this (not sure, not saying it doesn't). It seems like usually when i replace a resistor end, it is a 1K resistor, and we do everything "by the book" so I'm sure it's the correct end. I do know there are other resistances, as you mentioned 5K, I think the 5K is a different outside profile, usually found on the older V8's (116/117 for example)with the "W" first spark plug number, and uses the larger spark plug socket to remove them. The smaller end I believe is the one which is 1K and is used on "H" type spark plug which uses the smaller spark plug socket, such as the 102/103 motor. I have the most experience in needing to replace 103 engine wire ends, the ends seem more likely than other engines to seize to the sparkplug, which ends up needing to be destroyed to remove, then the end is ruined to get it apart.
The need to somehow suppress RMI (radio magnetic interference) is a mutual kind of thing, as the offending vehicle with non-suppressed secondary wiring will be receiving just as much interference (zot zot zot zot) on his radio as the other vehicles around him.
It rarely occurs that anyone ends up with a non-suppressed secondary ignition. As Marc has found out, you have to really try to find non-resistor plugs these days.
Gilly
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