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  #16  
Old 02-20-2002, 10:52 PM
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toyberg.

If you are in Southern california, Give MR. MB motors in tarzana a try. Enrique is an excellent mechanic, and has always done great work and provided excellent diagnosis on our family cars.

I try to stay away from the dealers unless I need a part that day.

Alon
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  #17  
Old 03-16-2002, 04:40 AM
Marc Lenssen
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engine cut out at idle

Hello Dan Gillitzer,

I have read your replies in this threat with big anticipation. You are the first that describes the problems I have in a fitting way. I have a 93 280E (US 300E 2.8 I think) with ofcourse the 104 engine. Since a while I am having problems with the engine cutting out at slowing to a halt or coasting at a regular speed. The problem will not be there after a cold start, she will run fine. After warming up the engine and caosting at a nice pace on the highway the engine wil start to hick up without a sound, it feels more as if the car is hit witha gust of wind from the front. It will do this once or a few times in a row. This problem is more present when I hit a bump in the road, this will be immediatly followed by a hick up. If I come to a halt or slow down to very low caosting just before making a turn the engine may cut out without a sound or the idle will be safed by jumping up and then normalizing. If the idle does not fall through it is normal, 650 rpms in D. The idle is a little unstable but then the engine ahs done about 90000Miles so what could I expect.
I have sofar replaced the oVP, fuel pump relay, spark plugs, air filter (even tried a K&N replacement one). The car has had regular maintenance at the mercedes shop so I asume that the etrol filter has been exchanged at the time that it should be.
It seems as if the problem is getting more frequent over time.
I figured that I have to do with a loose wire or sensor since the problem will be apparent when hitting a bump but if I run the car at idle and fiddle everything that I can see under the hood, or even hammer it to copy a bump, I can not reproduce the problem.
Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? Could it be a loose wire or a vacuum in the fuel system?

I am not very technical so please, if anyone has answers or question keep it slightly in laymans terms.

I would be gratefull for any suggestion or info.
Thanks,

Marc
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Idle problem - 94E320 HELPPPP-280e-1993.jpg  
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  #18  
Old 03-16-2002, 10:02 PM
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Marc:
Since your car isn't (I assume) US spec, I have to make a few assumptions, mainly I assume this is a SFI (sequential fuel injection) engine, probably LH or HFM-SFI, both really the same system, only the design of the mass airflow sensor is different.
If this is the case, I would start to suspect the engine wiring harness is the problem. There are a number of places this can be checked, although some of the areas may not apply to a Euro spec engine. The places I can usually make a good confirmation on this problem are the front of the cylinder head. The plastic panel needs to be removed, and there may be a couple switch-over valves under that. There will be electrical connectors on these switch-over valves. There are conduits over the wires for these connectors, sometimes you can see the insulation cracking off the copper wires just by observation of the wires coming out of the conduit, if not it may be adviseable to cut back the conduit to see more of the wiring. What happens is the insulation gets brittle and flakes off of the copper wires. If this happens in places where the copper of different wires can touch, you can have various problems, including the symptoms you have described, although I have to admit that by your description, it really sounds like the overvoltage protection relay, but you've done that already. Other places to check for a failure of the harness is the harness for the mass airflow sensor (harness outer covering needs to be cut open though) and the individual wiring connectors for the injectors. On a US car, usually you will get a "check engine" light, but a Euro-spec car I know has different equipment in this regard. Maybe there are stored codes in the engine management system similar to a US-spec car which may indicate the failure going on, even though there isn't a "check engine" light like a US car?
That's the best advice I can give assuming it is a SFI engine.
If it isn't SFI, if it's a CIS-E engine, let me know. If it's carburetted, you're on your own!
Gilly
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  #19  
Old 03-17-2002, 06:39 AM
Marc Lenssen
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Thanks a lot Dan.

Hello Dan,

Thanks a lot for all this information. I will check up on the areas that you mentioned. I have asked the benz dealer to check for error codes but they said that there were none. They also told me that they replaced the OVP. Maybe I should make really sure and replace it myself so at least I am really certain that it has happened. Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to making money.

At least it is not a carburretor engine but a modern 24 valve one.

Yesterday I took out the airmass meter, it looks like a very thin copper plate with three or four flat steel plates soldered on to it. It is about half an inch high and even less in width and is about 2 mm thick. What I did found out is that the clamp that holds the housing of the metertight into the following rubber sleeve was fairly loose, thus giving the possibility of false air being sucked in after the air mass meter. An other thing is that the hick ups at caosting doesnŽt really start then after coasting on a nice speed (90-95 Mph). If I hit the freeway and coast at only 60 miles it seems to take much longer before the hick up starts. After it starts theer is no stopping. The wiring I agree with since the hickup can almost be provoked by hitting a bump, this does sound like something mechanical.

I will try what you suggested and let you know the outcome.

Thanks a lot,

Marc
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Idle problem - 94E320 HELPPPP-benz-2.8-block.jpg  
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2002, 05:56 PM
HGV HGV is offline
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How MBZ get's around a design flaw

I had the same symptoms with my 1995 e320w and took it to the dealer since it was still under the 100K emmsion warranty in Calif. The dealer first said that the pick-up magnet on the flywheel had fallen off and the trany would have to come out. I guess when I looked at him with my "You must be smoking something" look he went back to his service forman get a better answer. The answer was that I needed a new wiring harness and it would take 12 hours to install. I had the head of my 300TD in half the time. I did not beleive the answer and decided to wait and call MBZ customer service. The next day the dealer called and said they would cover it under warranty. I did some more research and found this to be a common problem do to a change int he insullation wiring spec for a couple of years. This should be a recall item. My uncle who had the identicle problem took it to his local gas station and had the mechanic install it for him. He bought the wiring harness and by the mechanic. It took 2 HOURS for the uncertified mechanic to installit at a cost of $190.
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  #21  
Old 03-22-2002, 11:11 PM
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I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM

YOURE ALL GOING TO THINK IM CRAZY SAYNING THIS,, IM NOT A MB MECHANIC BUT I HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM ON MY 1994 E320 LAST WEEK AND I TRACED IT DOWN TO A SMALL LEAK ON THE VACUME HOSE THAT GOES TO THE THROTTLE VALVE ASSY.. A 5 DOLLAR PART FROM MERCEDES BENZ.. NOW IM HOPING SINCE YOU VE HAD YOU R CAR TO THE SHOP THAT THEY WOULD HAVE CHECKED THAT FIRST ,, BUT SOMETIMES WE OVERLOOK THE SMALL THINGS AND MAKE THE PROBLEM BIGGER THAN IT REALLY IS!!!
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  #22  
Old 03-23-2002, 03:46 AM
Marc Lenssen
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who knows

Hello All,

Again thanks for all the info and tips, Jay, where is that hose situated that you had replaced? ThereŽs a photo of my engine bay included in previous post in this thread.

Gilly: I have checked the wiring harness and the insulation of the wiring itself looks good, not brittle but flexible like it should be. So it either has been replaced or has never had the problem. I checked the spark plugs again because I also read some threads on those. I had exchanged them for copper core Itanium ones from Bosch. The tips were clean but light grey, I think this indicates a lean mixture going towards starvation?
While doing this I noticed that one of the ignition coils was not a 100% locked in position. When I pushed it to see if it was in al the way I could hear it click over the last part of the spark plug. Maybe this could cause a stall in a bumpy ride. I doubt it but one never knows and hope floats.

A lean mixture and a low idle are thingstha are not easy to change. I know from reading these forum threads that there are possibilities but usually the TEC speak is already driving me insane. If someone answers in this thread please describe the part to me visually and the location also. I have added a photo of my bay and can add photoŽs of any part that I can see with my cam so that we can agree on what part is mentioned in a thread.

So far so good, I need to take her out today so lets see if she stalls or hicks after having the ignition coils refastened.

Thansk all and since it is a saturday morning here, have a nice weekend.
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Idle problem - 94E320 HELPPPP-benz-gracht.jpg  
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  #23  
Old 03-23-2002, 01:37 PM
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Marc:
Interesting about the coil/coils not down tightly. Let us know if that changes anything. Here in the US I use Bosch F8DC4 spark plugs exclusively, gap .8mm, torque to 29nm.
If it keeps having problems, i would try to rig a fuel gauge so yo know if you can eliminate fuel supply as a possible problem.
Gilly
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  #24  
Old 03-23-2002, 02:41 PM
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In regards to the coils, the click/snap connection on these is not on the plug end themselves, but the plug connector boot/resistor to the coil towers. The plug end is simply a coil spring that rest on the plug from compression.
These are known troublesome boot/resistors and should be changed [ $8 ea.] Your car is HFM [my assumption-dist-less ign.]and when there is ignition failure, [ skip] , the ecu also shuts down fuel.
The other plug ends [ #1,3,and 5 hold up better as they are not trapped between the coil and plug chamber [ heat damage]
So, I would lift each coil and check that the boots all "POP' back on to the coils. [ better to change them at the same time]
The other click/snap connection is a screw shaft that the coil mounting hole [ only one per coil] slips over that has a clip connector for coil ground.
I doubt this to be the problem because , once the top inspection plate is secured, the plate mounting screws also go through the coils and ground/secure them.

Changing these 3 boots may/may not solve your problem, but are worth the $$$ and time in eliminating the possibilities ....
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  #25  
Old 03-23-2002, 06:07 PM
Marc Lenssen
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Hick up and stalling.

Hello All,

I use FR8D+ plugs with indeed a 0.8mm gap.

After making certain that every coil snapped and indeed one of them needed the extra snap I drove her around a bit on the freeway and on bumpy roads. And behold my amazement that so far no hickups and no stalling (yet). The stalling might indeed be caused by fuel shutting down after a misfire. If this happens while slowing to a halt the engine will drop to zero without even making a sound. So besides exchanging the OVP and the fuel pump relay this is about the cheapest thing I ever did to this car. Toke it out for a spin and really pushed the pedal later this evening,......no problemo what so ever!!!!!

I will keep you all posted if any trouble reappears. So far, really thanks a lot for all the tips.

Greetings,

Marc
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  #26  
Old 03-23-2002, 06:22 PM
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>> I use FR8D+ plugs with indeed a 0.8mm gap. <<

Is that a plat/resistor plug ??
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  #27  
Old 03-23-2002, 07:00 PM
Marc Lenssen
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Plat/Resistor plug refers to a platinum plus I assume. No,...it is a new copper core plug. the super plus from Bosch. Havent had any problems with them so far.

See photo for packaging and typename.

Greetings,

marc
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Idle problem - 94E320 HELPPPP-bosch-super-plus.jpg  
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  #28  
Old 03-23-2002, 07:06 PM
Marc Lenssen
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Hello Arthur,

I do have the idea that my coil was not properly grounded. The snap that I felt really felt as if the coil itself had to snap onto something on top instead of something deeper into the engine. It would also make sense that if you unground one coil, two cylinders are about to misfire and the ecu will shut down the injectors.

If anything happens I will let you guys know. Next time the cover comes off, IŽll exchange the connector bots. I have read about them being troublesome before so better safe then sorry for that money.

Thanks again and greetings,
Marc
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  #29  
Old 03-23-2002, 07:12 PM
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Cool..
I have not seen them here in the US yet, but they should be fine.
Looks to be an up-dated Super /Copper, which is what seems to work best here in US. [ if you can find them anymore]
The "R" sort of indicated a resistor plug in my mind. Guess not.
The boots on the coils and wires are the resistor, so a resistor plug is not need.
Some countries call for different resistors and the US version uses 2K on the 104 engines. Your's may be different [ stamped on the boot, next to part #]
Would be interested in knowing such...

Good Luck
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  #30  
Old 03-23-2002, 08:42 PM
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THE HOSE IM TALKING ABOUT IS VISIBLE IF YOU REMOVE THE AIR INTAKE TUBE THAT CROSSES THE TOP OF THE ENGINE AND LOOK STRAIGHT DOWN BESIDE THE THROTTLE BODY..(YOU MIGHT NEED A FLASHLIGHT.. THE HOSE IS ABOUT 3/4 IN ROUND ON ONE END WHERE IT PUSHES ONTO THE TOP OF THE ENGINE AND ABOUT 1/2 IN ROUND ON THE OTHER END .. THE HOSE IS ONLY ABOUT 6 INCHES LONG ALLTOGETHER.. SORRY I CANT USE MORE TECHNICAL TERMS BUT MY CAR WAS DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESCRIBED ABOVE AND I TRACED IT DOWN TO A CRACK IN THAT HOSE.. WHEN I REPLACED IT THE IDLE AND EVERYTHING SMOOTHED RIGHT OUT.. BENJAY
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