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Old 02-04-2002, 12:17 PM
pmizell's Avatar
Benz Zealot
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 838
Mercedes quality on par with Opel! (read)

Well, I don't think this article is a surprise to alot of forum members that have stated repeatedly that Mercedes quality just isn't what it used to be.


'91 300E, 207k miles
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Old 02-04-2002, 01:21 PM
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I guess its no surprise either that Lexus is the top dog by far according to that article.

This is a big jolt to MB IMO.

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Old 02-04-2002, 06:01 PM
elau's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: MD.
Posts: 1,725
Hopefully MB will now take it more seriously to improve its quality. Or else in a couple of years no one will want to look at MB as a luxo car manufacturer.
95 R129
04 Infiniti G35.5 BS
10 X204
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Old 02-04-2002, 09:19 PM
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Suwanee, GA, USA
Posts: 4,712
We all agree, but this site is not here to bash. So, if you have a reply to this topic, just keep it simple and polite.

Or, Poof! its gone.
Donnie Drummonds
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Old 02-05-2002, 07:54 AM
Posts: n/a
The part of that article that talked about the A Class indicates to me that whoever wrote this article has a hidden agenda.

The A Class debacle was misstated in the article and goes back several years to the rollover test in Sweden. (Let me see what carmaker that competes with MB is based in Sweden?) The rollover test was later proven to be impractical, but in spite of that, MB put the traction control technology on the A Class to prevent the rollowever even in these absurd conditions.

The other thing that makes the articles suspect is the way that they compared 296 problems per 100 to a competitor with a mere 285 problems per 100. Wow what a dramatic difference, slightly more than 1%!

I can't remember the tag line in JCE's standard signature, but it is something to the effect that you should be very careful about believing everything you read.

Additionally, these criteria are problems per 100. They are not stating the gravity of these problems. With statistics like this a tire with low pressure carries the same weight in these statistics as a blown engine. This does not properly indicate the long term durability of the car. Let's do some research on problems per 100 vehicles left on the road at the 300,000 mile mark and see how it comes out.

Have a great day,
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Old 02-05-2002, 09:58 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 387
Decided to jump in... Also remember that MB has some rather complex vehicles. When you spend over $100K on a car, you likely have an order of magnitude more things to go wrong... And, MB owners have no hesitation about having things fixed. Many owners of inexpensive cars just "live with" the small problems that come up. It's expected.
Bill Streep
San Antonio
'57 190SL (toy)
'08 S5500 (mine)
'09 CLK550 (wife's)
'06 SLK350 (daughter's)
'11 GLK350 (daughter's)
'03 CLK310 (spare)
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Old 02-05-2002, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plattakill, NY
Posts: 137
Worse than Opel? My mother had a Caddy Catera, what a lump that was. It drove very very nice but it broke down all the time. In the fist 3 years she had to be towed back to dealership like 10 or 15 times. She traded it in the day they paid it off. She got a BMW. I told her to get a Lexus as she is not really an "enthusiast" and I figured the reliability would be good. She did not listen. I told her not to get the Catera either. My wife looks forward to inheriting the BMW though.
1991 Mazda Miata 174000
1991 Subaru 189,000 Winter beater

got rid of:
1984 VW Vanagon 195,000
1976 350SE Euro 185,000 KM
1973 280SE 4.5 (boy do I regret that)
1980 280SE European W126 4 speed manual (miss it)
1989 BMW 735iL 119000 (good riddance)
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Old 02-06-2002, 08:38 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kingston, Ont.
Posts: 201
It was quite revealing to read of the company listening to "consumer needs" rather than "engineering needs" when planning product lines. Who speaks for the consumer in corporate cultures? Marketers! They who tell us what we want...i dont know what i want..just as long as its new and improved.

It was also curious to read of the problems inherent in innovating higher "levels of complexity" which leads to premature breakdown. Whatrever happened to "keep it simple" and put the innovation into making it last forever.

It was sad to hear that the mercedes division now must carry the ailing daimler chryslter oligarchy, which undoubtedly compounds the problem, but, hey, someone has to pay for the bureaucracy.
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Old 02-06-2002, 01:53 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: oregon
Posts: 194
the NAME

I still cant believe they changed THE name from
"Daimler Benz" to daimler chrysler!
'60 190b
'77 300D
'78 240D
'82 300TD
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Old 02-06-2002, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Western Michigan
Posts: 1,080
It is about time.

I am glad to see this "leaked" report.

It has been too long for MB, especially the arrogant MBNA, to deny any problems MB cars have even though head gasket, MAS, and wiring harness are failing left and right on the straight 6-cylinder engines.

Other MB lists have parallel discussions about this topic after the leaked report.

One day, it will be too late for Daimler Benz, Oooops, is it Daimler Chrysler now, to reverse this downward spiral. The three pointed star alone won't lure customers, at least not those who actually want to drive the cars, not "limp home."

Speaking of Limp home, this was on another MB list.

A guy bought a 95 S600. The ASR light came on in test drive so he asked the dealer to check it out. Do you want to know what the dealer say? EVERYTHING IS NORMAL.

One month later, the car wanted to "limp home". Dealer checked it out, it needs ASR related electronic stuffs, $6,000. Was he mad.

This post might be deleted by the moderator so whoever sees it sees it.
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Old 02-06-2002, 07:04 PM
ymsin's Avatar
Driver, Mercedes-Benz
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 1,645
When you consider that MB has a reputation of retaining its resale value over where we are, and now that the news have been revealed that the W210, 202, 220 and 140 has seen a remarkable depreciation with the 124s and 126s holdin' steady over the years - it says a lot of their perceived built quality. The public demand gives a fairly accurate picture of what its worth.
... Kerry

126 tailed by a 203, 129 leading the pack.
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Old 02-07-2002, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 298
Some news from China made me nervous about the MB's current quality and the attitude towards their customers.

A SLK owner had his brand new SLK230 fixed 6 times a year, though one might never know the truth of how MB was dealing with him, the result was the owner destroyed his SLK in front of the city hall, and started law suit against MB China later.

A ML320 owner, since he bought the 4X4, also has it repaired 8 times, from window motors to cupholder, at last it stalled intermittently, the most funny thing was windows motor was constantly broken, sometimes when he parked his car outside overnight, he had to have one of his security guards sleep in the car. Later he even hired an oxcart to tow this 4X4 to humiliate MB, he also launched lawsuit against MB with several C class owners.

In the day the court opened, MB refused to present to the court, and claimed the defendant name on the paper was "Mercedes Benz", which does not exist any more, they claimed that Daimler Chrysler only had representative offices in China, only accepted summons to Daimler Chrysler headquarter.

I used to live in China for more than 20 years, there everybody had been thinking that MB made the best cars, when I was a child, there was a rumor that whoever saw a MB stalled on the road, MB would pay him/her $10,000, several years ago, I could see more MBs in Beijing that in most of North American cities, but now MB is destroying its legends by itself, in these events, it was not the product quality but MB's attitude that worried me, and from what I have heard, this happened all of the world, I hope Mr. Schrimp has already started to do something before everything is too late.
99 BMW 540i 6-speed 110K Km
03 SAAB 9-5 wagon 80K Km
92 400E (Sold) 245K km
Still missing the days with the Benz, it kept me busy.
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Old 02-07-2002, 11:32 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Western Michigan
Posts: 1,080


Totally agree with you. This fellow lived in China for 25 years and went back four times in 2001.

Speaking of attitude, this was form another MB list in the last a few days.

A guy parked his SLK230 on an inclined driveway. The next morning, he discovered a lot of transmission fluid on the ground.

He went to the dealer. Want to guess what the dealer said? THEY ALL DO THAT.

The guys know cars pretty well and knows that THEY DO NOT ALL DO THAT. He requested a meeting with the service manager at the dealer. One advice to him was to contact the EPA as Mercedes Chrysler is designing cars to leak transmission fluid when parked on an inclined driveway.

Obviously the dealer was ridiculous and fixed the transmission (modulator leak).
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Old 02-07-2002, 11:38 AM
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Location: Western Michigan
Posts: 1,080
DaimlerChrysler Posts Loss for '01

DaimlerChrysler Posts Loss for '01


FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) - DaimlerChrysler AG said Wednesday it would slash its dividend after posting a loss for 2001 as it struggles to push through a reorganization focused on its ailing Chrysler division.

The world's fifth biggest auto company said it wouldn't make its operating earnings targets for 2002 - moew bad news that helped push the company's stock down.

DaimlerChrysler shares were down 4.7 percent to 42.64 euros ($36.67) in afternoon trading on the Frankfurt exchange. In afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange, its shares were down 58 cents at $37.40.

The company said it was cutting its dividend to 1.00 euro (86 cents) per share, from 2.35 euros in 2000 because of its poor results.

DaimlerChrysler, headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany and Auburn Hills, Mich., has been battered by the fallout of the Sept. 11 terror attacks and by brutal price-cutting on the crucial U.S. auto market.

The company has also incurred billions in one-time charges to restructure Chrysler and its Freightliner truck maker in the United States.

The company said it lost 662 million euros ($589 million) for 2001 versus a profit of 7.89 billion euros a year ago. Revenue fell to 153 billion euros ($136 billion) from 162 billion euros a year ago.

Releasing some other key figures ahead of its Feb. 20 annual news conference, the company said it had an operating profit of 1.3 billion euros ($1.1 billion) adjusted to exclude one-time charges and financial items like taxes and interest in 2001. That was at the lower end of its target range of 1.2 billion euros to 1.7 billion euros ($1 billion-$1.5 billion).

The company previously indicated it would reach at least 1.2 billion euros ($1 billion) in operating profit, a number watched by analysts since it is believed to show the clearest picture of the company's core business.

At the same time, DaimlerChrysler said its 2002 goal of an adjusted operating profit of 5.5 billion euros to 6.5 billion euros ($4.7 billion to $5.6 billion) would not be met until later.

The original projections, made in February 2001, "were based on assumptions that more favorable economic conditions would prevail. The reality is that the fundamentals have become more uncertain and the task more challenging," the company said in a statement.

Still, 2002 operating profits would be more than twice the 2001 figure of 1.3 billion euros ($1.1 billion) it forecast, but didn't say how much more.

"DaimlerChrysler is confident that it will take profits to much higher levels in the future," the statement read.

The 2001 numbers "are actually OK," said Krista Kepler, an analyst at Merck Finck and Co. in Munich. Given the cost or the reorganization, the net loss is relatively modest, she said.

More troubling was the 2002 outlook, which wasn't accompanied by a full explanation of why earnings would fall short, she said.

"The general rationale everywhere is weaker markets, but they didn't say which market and which division," Kepler said. "There's no indication whether this is stuff that's been addressed or stuff that is going to have to be addressed."

AP-NY-02-06-02 1303EST
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