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Old 07-30-1999, 10:24 PM
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Last w/e I had the brake pad sensor warning light come on. I checked everything out and plan to replace the rotors and brakes this w/e. However, I noticed today that my odometer is not working, but the trip odometer is.

Is this at all connected to my rotor and brakes? The sensor on the front passenger is broke, is that somehow connected to the odometer?

Mercedes are very weird automobiles!!!
I wish I had purchased a VW instead!

Is it the prestige behind Mercedes that make them so sought after? They seem to be very tempermental and, excuse me, cheap.

Thanks for your help.
Old 07-30-1999, 11:05 PM
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Suwanee, GA, USA
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What kind of car do you have.


Old 07-30-1999, 11:52 PM
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My car is an 89 190E 2.6.

Old 07-31-1999, 12:14 AM
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Why must you cheapen a very good technical forum with your non technical thoughts on the vehicle. I applaud this site's professionalism in not replying to your remarks. Maybe it is not too late for that VW.
Old 07-31-1999, 10:04 AM
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 2,699
If you are unable to appreciate the engineering that goes into these cars, then I think we'd all like to see you find the VW of your dreams!
Old 07-31-1999, 09:18 PM
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I see that the owners of Mercedes are even more tempermental than the cars themselves!!!

Old 08-01-1999, 01:40 AM
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My 190 is tempermental! But I wouldn't trade it! I recently replaced my front rotors, pads, bearings, and and wear sensors. The wear sensors were missing when I did the work. W/in 200 miles the dash light has started glowing off and on. All the wear sensor is is an electrical connection. I haen't looked to fiqure out why mine is glowing yet, a short no doubt. However, replacing the front brakes is both satisfying, easy, and straight foreward. Do not fear the unknown.
Old 08-02-1999, 12:57 PM
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The very nature of this site is such that it is a resource by which those of us non technical or inexperienced enough with Mercedes Benz automobiles can learn from the experiences of others. Don't you agree? Nothing has been cheapened by Bradfordro's comments. In fact, he has opened the door to what could have been a positive discourse on the strengths and weaknesses (yes, weaknesses) of Mercedes Benz automobiles.

Michael, as for your remark, all I can say is that you do not speak for me. I do not care to belong to the 'elite' group of Mercedes Benz owners. Comments of this nature only serve to put distance between people, and will eventually label this website as a bunch of intolerant 'good ol' boys'.

On Bradfordro's comment as to the 'cheap' nature of Mercedes Benz automobiles, I don't think that's quite the word I would have used, but nevertheless, let's just review a couple of things I think those of us who have been reading this site for any length of time have come across and see if maybe we can see the issue from Bradfordro's side:

1. Why do the fasteners holding the windage tray in the 603 engine (300SDL) come loose, work their way into the pickup of the oil pump, erode a hole through the screen, become lodged inside, cause the pump to fail thereby causing, at the very least, the turbo to fail and possibly further engine damage? Where is the fine engineering QC here? Did that poor assembly tech maybe have a little to much Hefeweizen the night before?

2. The air conditioner on my 1989 Toyota Camry works far better in stop and go city driving than does that in my 300SDL. How can that be if astute Mercedes Benz engineers did their homework and decided that the amount of air they were exchanging past the condenser to be sufficient city driving conditions? Maybe the weather doesn't get that hot in Germany. I think not. Pretty basic stuff. Refrigeration thermal transfer balance equations have been around for a long time.

3. Why use plastic fuel tanks that rupture? Why not design that critical component with robustness and longevity and take the weight savings from some other place?

4. Why do so many Mercedes Benz engines have leaky seals/gaskets?

5. Why do so many 80's 300E engines require new valve stems and seals at such low mileage? It is hard to imagine that this aspect of engine design is so difficult since you rarely hear of faulty valve guides as a common mode of engine failure in other manufacturers' engines.

Now please don't misunderstand, I am simply trying to bring to light the fact that Mercedes Benz automobiles, fine as they are and enjoyable to drive as they are, do come with their limitations: unexpected, and even, by some standards, inexcusable ones at that. My point is that Mercedes Benz automobiles are *not* above criticism or reproach, and neither are the people that own them.

Happy motoring.
Old 08-02-1999, 03:34 PM
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To All,

I apologize to the Mercedes owners that utilize this site. I, like most of you, am grateful to the knowledge and professionalism of the sites operators, as well as it's members.

The comment of Mercedes being 'cheap' was not meant as an insult to it's users or manufacture. However, there are certain factors about these vehicles that make them no better their average Japanese or American counterparts, which I thought would be 'lower in quality' than Mercedes.

The high level of maintenance for a non-durable good almost makes these vehicles an irrational purchase. So, naturally the question would have to be posed by a recent buyer, "Why do people purchase them?"

Whether a 'Good 'Ole Boy' or 'Average Joe,' a piece of machinary that requires such high level of maintenance would not be a rational purchase to anyone who thoroughly does his/her research, as I did, prior to a purchase.

My comments were written in haste at the end of a string of problems that seem to plague the Mercedes that I own. These are minor problems that I have never encountered in other vehicles, foreign or domestic; problems that stem from, what seem to me, as 'substandard' for such a prestigous and regal automobile.

I think any Mercedes owner can testify that below the enjoy ride and luxuries, Mercedes is just an average car.

Old 08-02-1999, 03:47 PM
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If I may be so bold, I would respectfully suggest that you may have slightly missed the point of my response. It is not _you_ that I feel needs to apologize for anything. If you desire to refer to Mercedes Benz automobiles as 'cheap' that is your right.
Old 08-02-1999, 08:47 PM
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This site offers great technical advice from people that did not design the vehicle nor are they in a position to change it since most of the vehicles in question are out of production. They take time out of their busy day to answer your questions to help you fix the systems that are not operating as designed. Please understand that all the other comments, even though it is your right to have your own opinion, need not be shared in a technical forum.
Old 08-02-1999, 10:21 PM
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You called for a 'Good 'Ole Boy' or 'Average Joe'? Well, here I am!
First lets all have a beer or two, and cool down the radiators a little bit. I will try to answer as many of these 'gripes' as I can.

bradfordro, if your trip odometer is working you know then that the speedo cable that comes out of the BACK end of the transmission is working. The brake sensor that belongs on each front wheel grounds the light in the cluster. Why this does not make a Mercedes a weird automobile, these are both very straight forward designs. In case you did not know, a Volkswagen is also a german automobile, with a large number of vendors making parts for both automobiles (Bosch, Hella, ATE, Girling and many more). Perhaps you would be happier changing spark plugs on an American car, or wrestling with the rear brakes of a General Motors car! Or how about a Kia?

Josh, yes you have to watch that the brake sensor does not touch the wheel or disc, that will make the pad light glow (if that is the light that is on). And yes the brakes are straight forward and have only a few changes from model to model. The Germans do things different from the Japanese who do things different (and usually better) then the big three in the USA.

The 190 series was designed as an entry level Mercedes-Benz, and many Technicians would agree it was not their best effort, but most would agree after those first years, the 190's became a very good car. Especially of taken care of by a well trained technician, with access to factory parts and manuals and ETM's. I have have cars in both excellent and terrible condition, and you can tell the car that has been properly taken care of, and by your comments, I would thank you to keep struggling with your own car, and buy the proper manuals so your 'inexperience' will not be so readily apparent.

JDEN, sorry I don't have time for your observations. I also like Toyotas.

Old 08-02-1999, 10:36 PM
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I began to participate in this sight because it promised to be a technical forum where Mercedes-Benz owners could post there technical question. It has become more and more of a whine forum. If I want to listen to this type of comments there are many forums out there that thrive on this type of behavior. True MB enthusiast do not whine about the high maint required, or the problems that they encounter. They aproach it with a positive aditude and entusiasm for the fine peice of mechanical equipment that they are fortunate to own. I began to lose my entusiasm for this when I gave a person instructions to remove his rear view mirrior. He then somehow managed to break the mirrior. He then posted a very uncalled for post. I guess when you offer free advice you have no control over the ability of the person that is giong to be performing the work. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has the ability to use there hands. ie. Bull in the China Closet sindrome. As for the comments of a cheap product. This is a relevent issue. One must always keep in mind that cost is always a refection of the quality of a product. Take for example the 89 190E in question. This car was designed as a entry level Mercedes-Benz. Remember what it was called on introduction in 1984? The press called the Baby Benz. It was sold for aprox. $22-23K. A S-Class Coupe of the same time sold for aprox $65-70k. The point he is that the 190 does not and will not ever reach the same qaulity levels of the S-Class. The 190 in my experance was one of the best values that M-B ever offered. I hope that those that are responsible for these types of post get the hint. From now on I will not respond to any post that contain this type of comments. If you have a technical question Please post the symtoms and history as best you can and I will do what I can to get you the info that will help. Many other tech that are in this forum feel as I do I am sure.
PS If you think that M-b Owners are tempermental try the techs.
Old 08-02-1999, 11:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 2,699
Sorry to all my fellow MB fans for my brash and, far more importantly, non-technical response to bradfordro's slam on his 190. Whereas it's his right to do so, perhaps it was just the way he put it that prompted my response.

I agree that this should remain a forum to solve problems with our cars, and our cars are Benzes. We've owned others, but I for one have concluded that the safety, general reliability and quality of these cars keeps me a proud owner. Wouldn't put my family in anything less safe, even if I have to keep buying them used!

Happy motoring to all, and best of luck to bradfordro with his gremlin.


'92 500E
'88 300TE

Old 08-03-1999, 02:06 AM
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Okay everyone, hold up! If I seem to have pissed that many people off, I more than apologize!

My comments were not intended to offend ANYONE. Like Corky said (who by the way I am very appreciative too for the rearview mirror assistance, and who took my comment the wrong way) my car is a Gremlin. Maybe I purchased the black sheep of the lot, or maybe the sun didn't rise correctly the morning of all my problems, either way please end this campaign! This is a ridiculous way for grown men to behave. This is not Capital Hill!

As I have been waiting for the last four weeks to receive a service and repair manual, I am very hestitant about experimenting (as someone said) my novice ability on such a car, i.e. the mirror, Corky. This site is and continues to be a excellent forum for those like myself who want to be very careful as not to cause damage. However, lets all remember, these are just material matters. There is no need for drastic emotions and rudeness. This site by far is above that, per it's operators and members.

So, I'll make each you a promise, to end this matter once and for all. I will stay off this site until I receive my manual. At that time, I'll able to make more 'technical' questions.

I hope this suits you all well.

Signing off,


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