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  #1  
Old 12-11-2003, 05:25 AM
Sid The Kid's Avatar
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Green Coolant

Hi
My car currently has the green coolant in it. Someone told me to get rid off it right away and replace it with Mercedes clear color coolant. He said if I mix the two coolants my cooling system will detoriate. I told him hes crazy, is he? So I had to postphone my water pump installation. Do I need to use a cleaning product to clean the cooling system before I change to the clear color?
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:07 AM
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The guy who has told me about the green vs clear coolant has actually really pissed me off now. I can't get peace of mind now because I think the green coolant is damaging my cooling system. Does his crazy theory support only newer Mercedes or does it apply to mine aswell. Mines a 1991 500SL. First he tells me his story and then he has to add that I need to get all the green coolant out completly because the two coolants will chemically react. Is what he says true? I was just going to drain the rad and block and then just add the clear coolant in. I dont like these games that certain car manufuactures are starting to play stating if you dont use their brand damage will occur. All desperately trying to make money at the expense of my peace of mind. If this is all true Merceces better be paying for my entire cooling system. He told me thats the resaon my water pump failed and if I leave it in there next is my radiator. I have been adding mercedes coolant lately because of the leak. If any chemical reaction occurs and ruins my headgasket or anything Mercedes better be supplying me with a new engine.
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:15 AM
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He's right. Use the Mercedes coolant only. You can use Zerex G-05 too, which is the same color (clearish amber). Out of curiosity, how are you expecting Mercedes to supply you with a new cooling system (free I'm assuming) or engine, considering your car is 12 years old?

Here's a thread that may be helpful:

Coolant RED vs. GREEN

Last edited by speedy300Dturbo; 12-11-2003 at 06:23 AM.
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:47 AM
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Thanks for the reply. Do I have to clean the system first before I change the type of coolant?
To answer your question on the reason why they would be paying for it is as follows. There is nothing wrong with using the green coolant. If the car comes with the Mercedes coolant and one day you do a coolant flush somewhere else and they use the green coolant you will get the chemical reaction my friend was talking about. This is Mercedes way of punishing you for doing your service elsewhere. Then when they make you think it is your fault for taking the car elsewhere and only they can do the job properly you give them your money for the repairs. Mercedes is not the only car in the world that uses aluminum parts. Lots of American cars use aluminum and are doing okay with the green coolant. If one day the american car owner decided to use the mercedes coolant he would suffer damage to his car too for the same reason. (The chemical reaction). If a mercedes cooling system was filled with the green coolant from the start and you change the coolant every 2 years the car would be fine. Car manufactures are greedy and are in a very demanding market. If Mercedes didnt need all the money they could get they would have never merged with Chrysler. They know they make more money in servicing then sales so why not make customers believe they ruined their car on their own, so they dont blame the car or the manufacrture. How convenient. If you have every Mercedes owner buying mercedes coolant compared to a capable off the shelf coolant how much does that add to Mercedes revenue?? If you have all these people with water pump failures getting their car fixed (because they believe its their fault for using the wrong coolant) how much money will you make? If they want to play their money making games with me they better be paying for my new parts that got damaged. If you think Mercedes looks at you as a valued customer, I'm sorry, they don't. Like any business they look at you as an asset because you have the potential to earn them revenue. They will be your friend only to a point where they feel they are contributing to their asset to earn higher revenues in return. If they know for a fact that they are not going to earn any revenue from you they wont spend any money or time on you. If they feel you are an asset they will be your "friend." They play with customers minds, and they do it very well. They might say it is specifically engineered for mercedes becasue mercedes are so high tech etc.. or they will say mercedes is like no other car, blah blah blah. But if they are going to use these stunts on me I am not falling for their tricks. They messed up my car with their cleverly disguised tactics they are going to pay for my damages. Isn't it a perfect world when everyone services their car at Mercedes because if they go elsewhere the wrong cooalnt will be added and its the customers fault. Then to top it off the ones who serviced their car elsewhere now earn Mercedes more money with their more costly repairs. So you make more money from your customers if they fix their car somewhere else. Amazing, eh? It's all business. Thats how this world works. No manufacrturer wants their car to be perefect, they want it to break down sooner or later. And when it breaks down they want the customer to think it was their fault the car broke down.
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2003, 08:58 AM
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If you're going to drain the radiator and block, you can't just add the coolant in - you should flush the system first. Prestone radiator flush should work fine, and although Mercedes makes their own citric acid flush, I don't think it's 100% necessary to use that exact product.

Mercedes coolant runs about $9 a gallon. I think Zerex G-05 is a bit cheaper.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2003, 10:47 AM
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I have used both fluids, without any major problem. I would however not recommend mixing them. I replace my antifreeze every 30000 or 2years religiously. I believe you will find alot of discussion on this board if you do a search. Hopefully it will put your mind at ease.
m
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2003, 11:13 AM
moedip
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I USED to use green coolant in my 560sel until I read an article from Mercedes about the use of their coolant. Using their coolant there is no a recommended change interval for the coolant hoses on the car - according to the article hoses should last up to 15 years no problem. Then there were the numerous threads about the necks breaking off on the rads from the deterioration of the plastic from the green coolant - still I did nothing. Then my rad neck broke and I had to change my hoses - they were swelling. I flushed the system and changed the rad, water pump and all hoses and am Mercedes coolant only from now on. Specialized antifreeze for German cars is not unique to Mercedes. VW has three different antifreezes and it depends on the year of car you own as to which one you use - failure to use the right one will result in premature cooling system breakdown - is it worth the slight extra cost for the right stuff not to use it???? Mixing two antifreezes changes the chemical balance and the PH level - unless you are a chemist - who knows what will result - after my experience I would never do it. I carry a jug of premixed Mercedes antifreeze in the trunk - just in case I need a top up.
When you think about it - why would you use green stuff just because it is antifreeze - would you use an oil in your engine that was not formulated for your engine eg- 30 weight non detergent - just because it was oil? Think about it.

Morris
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2003, 12:04 PM
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My 300E has unknown mileage (I estimate 200 to 250K the odometer did not work for 2 1/2 years, it was fixed a year before I bought it) I know the previous owner, and he traveled a lot to Georgia from NY. For the last 10 years this car has had the green stuff in it. (I have owned it for 4). It is flushed religiously every year. No problems.
Now the water pump is leaking, only when cold.
I do not think it is coolant related, since these pumps (original pump) are known to fail around that mileage (if not before).
I will be draining all the coolant to change the pump (got a brand new LASO pump for under $100 that is including shipping charges), I am not sure yet whether to do the flush and put the MB stuff, or keep using the green stuff.
Mind you, I have spent 3 days reading every single post on the "MB stuff versus green stuff debate".
I think I am ready for my PhD dissertation on coolants.

This car was built in May 1986, 17 1/2 years ago.
I need someone with knowledge to answer this question for me:
Was the MB coolant around when this car was built? Or was the green stuff put in when the car was built?

I do not want to change from the green stuff, since obviously have not done any harm.

This is NOT to start a new debate. I just need the answer to the question above.
Thanks in advance for the information.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2003, 01:22 PM
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There are three major types of antifreeze that make up about 99+ percent of the market. All use an ethylene glycol base, but have different corrosion inhibitor chemistry. The two primary functions of antifreeze are to provide lower freezing and higher boiling points and protect the system from corrosion. This is why there is a change interval. The corrosion inhibitor package is consumed with time, and the clock runs regardless of whether the car is operated or not, which is why many OE antifreeze change recommendations on a mileage/time interval, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.

The three types of corrosion inhibitor packages are inorganic, organic, and hybrid. The green stuff uses an inorganic package, which contains a lot of phosphates and silicates. These provide good corrosion protection, but tend to precipitate out and plug radiator tubes, so instead of corroding through, the system eventually gets plugged up. The silicates are also abrasive, which can shorten coolant pump life.

One of the first organic inhibitor packages that was widely adopted is GM Dexcool. After reading about this new technology in the mid-nineties, which provides excellent corrosion protection, does not precipitate out salts that plug the system, and is non abrasive to the coolant pump seals, I switched all my cars to Dexcool before it was widely available. I bought Havoline Extended Life Antifreeze directly from Texaco who manufactures the product for GM. You can now buy Dexcool at normal retail outlets from several manufacturers.

Hybrid systems have been around for a long time and have been used by European manufactures since at least the early eighties if not earlier. Hybrids use a basic organic inhibitor package, but have a very small does of inorganics such as silicates, which is where the name "hybrid" is derived. The MB coolant is a hybrid as is Zerex G-05, which is a development of the hybrid that MB used in the eighties, but is now available at a reasonable price at auto parts stores, and is the same as current MB antifreeze.

I don't recommend green stuff in ANY car, but when changing from green stuff to either Dexcool or G-05, the system should be thoroughly drained and flushed as there is some incompatibility between the corrosion inhibitor packages and mixing them can reduce corrosion protection.

Drain the system thoroughly by opening all drains to include the radiator, block, and any others. Once drained remove the heater core inlet hose at the head nipple and flush the heater core circuit and engine thoroughly with a garden hose until the effluent is colorless and tasteless. It's also not a bad idea to do a couple of hot flushes by filling the system with potable water, then starting the engine and allowing to to operate until the thermostat is open for about five minutes. Drain and let the engine cool then repeat the process. After all this any traces of the green stuff should be essentially removed.

Fill the system with a 50/50 mix of either Dexcool or G-05 with distilled water.

MB's recommended drain interval for my '88 190E, assuming the use of MB antifreeze or equivalent (G-05 and Dexcool can be consider equivalent for maintenance interval purposes) is three years, with NO MILEAGE LIMIT!!!

I'd be interested in hearing if they still recommend the same maintenance interval for recent model years. It should be in the owner's packet recommended maintenance schedule.

Duke
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2003, 02:11 PM
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I've heard the rational on MB coolant before..

MB buffers their solution. Go buy some ph strips and check MB coolant diluted 50/50... it's pretty close to 7.

If you go get your green stuff, it will be really basic. Then as it ages, it becomes really acidic. That's what is suppose to be horrible on the rubber and plastic parts.

My experience recently attaining a dealer serviced 1986 car. It had a bad radiator just like any MB which ran the green crap. So, I'm not sure it matters as much with the radiator,but I've seen 250,000 miles 18 year old hoses which look much better than US stuff.

Flushing... just do a few rinses with water. MB suggests a degreaser or citric acid as flushing agents.

Summary- I'm not sure you can go wrong with the MB stuff. THe buffering(keeping it ph neutral throughout the life of the coolant) is a good thing... even if it doesn't save your radiator.


Michael
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2003, 02:47 PM
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Green coolant, especially if not changed every other year, will lead to severe corrosion of both the aluminum radiator AND the aluminum heads. On my sister's Volvo 740 Turbo, the head corroded through around a couple of cylinders, causing the head gasket to blow on the highway. New head and rad, about $700 in parts.

Use only the MB or Zerez G-05, green coolant will NOT protect against corrosion of the aluminum.

I'd avoid DexCool types, as the anitcorrosive additive is silcate, and that will result in the deposition of silicates of various sorts on the rad and in the block and head -- these are NOT soluble in any sort of coolant flush you would want to put in there, and cannot be removed.

Peter
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2003, 04:06 PM
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Dear Sid The Kid:

You can just try to flush out the green coolant as much as you can, but don't worry about whether some leftover green coolant will mix with the Mercedes coolant (or Zerex G-05). Mercedes/G-05 coolant are designed to be "backward-compatible" with green coolant. In fact they do contain a small amount of silicates, which indicate that they were concocted with that backward-compatibility purpose in mind. The anti-corrosion compounds in green coolant (like silicates, borates etc...) are abrasives that may cause water pump seal to fail faster. Fortunately, the very low concentration of silicates in Mercedes/G-05 coolants will not affect water pump seals much.

However, if you use Dexcool coolant to replace green coolant, try to flush out green coolant as much as possible and add Dexcool. The green coolant will react with and deteriorate organic acid compounds in Dexcool, thus rendering it incapable of providing anti-corrosion properties anymore. You must flush out the mixture of Dexcool and leftover green coolant after one year. Try to do that twice (once per year). After that, you can just pour in Dexcool and keep it as long as 5 years in your car's cooling system.

Dear Mr. psfred: Dexcool does not have any of these anti-corrosion compounds: silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrites, and amines. The anti-corrosion inhibitor system in Dexcool consists exclusively of organic acid compounds. The biggest problem with Dexcool is that it may cause rust-like deposit in cooling systems if Dexcool level is low, or air is trapped inside cooling systems.

It's always better to stick with Mercedes/G-05 coolants.

Eric
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2003, 04:12 PM
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Quote:

I'd avoid DexCool types, as the anitcorrosive additive is silcate, and that will result in the deposition of silicates of various sorts on the rad and in the block and head -- these are NOT soluble in any sort of coolant flush you would want to put in there, and cannot be removed.

Peter
Let's get the facts straight. Dexcool DOES NOT have any silicates or other inorganic materials.
Dexcool has a purely organic inhibitor package.

Duke
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2003, 07:13 PM
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Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this topic that I was so upset about. I apprecaite the insight you all gave me and I just plan to drain the old fluid out from the rad and block and then re-fill it with mercedes benz coolant and distilled water. Thanks again
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