That standard was passed by large margin years ago. Feel lucky, getting what you ask for won't often be so easy.

we define minimal differently. We could definitely take some lessons from our northern neighbors here, and still preserve our traditions

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As has been asked by several people on this tread,
How would ANY law or change being discussed here, or anywhere, have prevented the tragedy?
We would be as successful by passing a LAW to make cancer illegal.

These proposed changes do NOTHING to attack the root of the problem. Define the root cause and you might be on your way to a solution.

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A guess... Mental health issues? Overall mental health wellness?

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Not sure what you intend.
Should the government be allowed to incarcerate anyone for whom they can find a doctor who will certify that they need to be incarcerated?
What could possibly go wrong with that? Suddenly free speech gets interpreted as "aberrant behavior, and the speaker needs to be held 'for their own safety'". Yep--that would be good.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

No, that was not my intention. I actually had no ideas at the time but its clear that mental health and well being are things that need to be addressed within this context. Not just gun control. If Lamza really wanted to kill all those people and didn't have relatively easy access to a gun...he would have still done so using whatever he could. I read he was a fairly smart/intelligent kid. I would not have put it past him to make something to do equal if not more harm.

So that brings us back to the core problem Lamza's mental health and well being.

You can legislate guns into the ground but if he was set on killling...

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The gun would have been locked up and he may not have gained access to the guns.

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Human history.

I don't necessarily agree 100 percent, but this is an excellent read. A bit old -97- but still timely.

Washington University Law Quarterly: OF HOLOCAUSTS AND GUN CONTROL

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What's really needed is formalized mandatory education and training in gun safety, if anything to enforce the 2nd amendment, not weaken it. So many accidents could be avoided if people were just better trained. Apparently in Virginia you can buy a pistol for C&C without ever having shot a gun before. That is just wrong.

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Agreed. Want to buy a gun? Get trained first. That sounds reasonable.

What arguments could there be against it?

"doh well i know what im doing i dont need ur government training"

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This seems reasonable to me. Also the requirement that guns be locked up when not in use. I would not go around looking to see of folks had unsecured guns but if your gun was used in a crime I would be inclined to charge you with something similar to accessory (or a similar term) to the crime.

You want to keep your shotgun loaded under the bed then you risk a lot if it is stolen and used in a robbery or worse.

I have a number of guns myself, all unlocked but none are loaded. The ammo is nearby but not immdiately adjacent to the weapons. If required by law or by my insurance I would lock them up without complaint.

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So, after nearly 900 posts we have no resolution.

One side wants to just ignore the Constitutional language regarding infringement, admits that laws will not the law-breakers but want "something" to be done. I'd have to call that an emotional response to the tragedy in CT.

The other side is characterized as not caring about the murder of innocents, and needing guns to replace their childhood security blankets.

Intransigence on both sides. Matters of principle on both sides.
How do you construct a compromise between two such parties?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

You go and let the libs pass a few laws to make themselves feel better in the fact that they "did something".

Then we go on as usual.

Nothing to see here.

When does the line cross between calling something an emotional response, and the correct direction we need to move in? Was declaring independence an emotional response? yes. Was it also the correct move? also yes.

food for thought. Im not basing my opinions on a secret statistic of how many people defend themselves against break ins with a firearm and don't report it. Im basing mine on being tired of seeing this-

December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.
September 27, 2012. Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.
August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.
July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.
May 29, 2012. Ian Stawicki opened fire on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, WA, killing 5 and himself after a citywide manhunt.
April 6, 2012. Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, shot 5 black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in racially motivated shooting spree. Three died.
April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.
February 27, 2012. Three students were killed by Thomas “TJ” Lane, another student, in a rampage at Chardon High School in Chardon, OH. Three others were injured.
October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.
September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.
January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.
August 3, 2010. Omar S. Thornton, 34, gunned down Hartford Beer Distributor in Manchester, CT after getting caught stealing beer. Nine were killed, including Thornton, and two were injured.
November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.
April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.
March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.
February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.
February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.
December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.
April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.
February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.
October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.
March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in a shooting spree through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.
March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.
March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.
July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MS in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7 before killing himself.
December 26, 2000. Edgewater Technology employee Michael “Mucko” McDermott shot and killed seven of his coworkers at the office in Wakefield, MA. McDermott claimed he had “traveled back in time and killed Hitler and the last 6 Nazis.” He was sentenced to 7 consecutive life sentences.
September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.
July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.
April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

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