WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School - Page 51 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Air&Road · #**751** 12-18-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

yet here you are. talking.

Convenient how you have respect for the dead, and anyone who disagrees with your solutions on how to deal with the problem does not. Of course, you haven't posted any solution that I can name, only that you don't like gun grabbers, so whats your actual message in this thread?

You are concerned only about what may affect you, up to and including worrying about things of yours that might be taken if others have their way. That is as selfish as your other posts in general, which is no surprise.

I am willing to believe that everyone on this thread has plenty of respect for the dead, whatever their opinions, and plenty of us are absolutely tired of the same crap happening again and again in the same way.

If you actually knew what you were talking about it might be funny.

You might want to go back and read the title of this thread. When you do, if you find the part requesting a solution, please share your clairvoyance with the rest of us.

kmaysob · #**752** 12-18-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p7fan

The biker community has made it their goal that the WBC not be attending any funerals of the 26.....

GOOD FOR THEM! Maybe if that kinda thing happens enough those scumbags will stop trying

JamesDean · #**753** 12-18-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Sure, I'll talk about the issues. Apparantly the difference between you and I, however, is that I have respect for the dead. There is the right time for everything and now is not the time.

Bring me the video of Obama at the trigger, gunning down innocent children and I'll accommodate your wishes.

When is the appropriate time ?

Why is now not appropriate?

Who decides when it is appropriate?

I dont think there is any required "wait time" for discussion possible solutions/actions to problems of this magnitude.

I dont think by any stretch that Larry would point the finger at his favorite politician and his fearless leader, BO.

JB3 · #**754** 12-18-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Except that you are not controlling the public, you are merely allowing teachers to be armed on campus as opposed to the current situation where they are not allowed to be armed which is in fact a greater interference and control than if they were.

Until it doesn't work. Until the first armed teacher gets shot anyway through total surprise, then its the next step

Quote:

And do you think the supporters of the 2nd see your attitude as any different?

I don't. I however see them as so wedded to a single interpretation of the 2nd, that they will refuse to consider a large number of minor adjustments which simply make good sense and do not infringe rights of ownership. Cmbdiesel has posted several of them.

Quote:

That's precisely why I suggested several armed staff members per campus. You need a "critical defensive mass". These nutjobs are not going to engage in protracted gun battles with armed opponents. Everytime they are confronted by armed people they kill themselves. So confront them early and get them killed soon. Wether by staff shooting back or by their own hand when they realize the game is up.

Most of these mass shootings are quick. These guys get in, do the biggest amount of damage possible, then off themselves. I still think even a teacher based reaction squad would be too slow to force an issue, and always be surprised, meaning some if not most would go down.

Quote:

Well, you clearly have no problem removing the personal freedom to live by the 2nd amendment of the US constitution, so frankly I don't see why you'd have any problem with the removal of other freedoms.

I haven't proposed eliminating the amendment, only updating it and making certain things either impossible or harder to get. Big difference in what you are attributing to me.

Quote:

Actually, they would be the precise opposite of a police state. A state where the citizenry is able to protect itself from harm is not a police state especially if it's not subject to the dictates of said state as to how and where it may defend itself.

Pipe dreams. The teachers are state employees, which for this reaction squad you propose would probably end up with police or military training, which limits their utility as a teacher 100fold. Teaching has been described to me by multiple teachers as one of the hardest professions there are, my own sister after teaching for 3 years said that law school was actually easier, so consider what you are assuming would be an extra easy to bear load on already over worked public employees.
The only way it would work is dedicated "teachers" who are really security professionals.

Quote:

That is a false statement. The idea that every time a gun is used in self defence it's reported to the police is inaccurate (I said used, not necessarily fired or fired to injurious or lethal effect).

All I can do is look at the data and draw conclusions from the facts presented. Easy enough to claim statistical data is flawed because of an unmeasurable, unverifiable, and un stated secret record of thousands of incidents that you are sure, makes the statistics tip in your favor.

Quote:

That is a valid question. If teachers were to carry guns there would have to be stringent requirements regarding them. Certain types of guns are safer than others and some would be more and others less suitable for the task in a school environment. Ultimately of course the most important factor is the teacher themselves.

I don't know that it is a feasible option, but it seems better in my mind than providing whack jobs with giant soft targets called "gun free zones"

- Peter.

I partially agree, I believe gun free zones to also be a pipe dream, though I do not believe the answer is to dump more guns into gun free zones.

JB3 · #**755** 12-18-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

If you actually knew what you were talking about it might be funny.

You might want to go back and read the title of this thread. When you do, if you find the part requesting a solution, please share your clairvoyance with the rest of us.

well, I do do this thing called look up facts and documentation that I find compelling and what others have posted, then try and form my opinion around what the information tells me, unless in this circumstance, I already have an opinion as we all do, and think its time to act instead of wringing our hands and saying its impossible.

I guess thats pretty short of, as so well stated by others, not reading what I wrote, not reading whats linked, not reading what you wrote, and not reading in general.

In the world of foggy interpretation of barely perceived hype and emotional vulnerability, I guess the logical conclusions would always be the same, that black guy in the white house.

Air&Road · #**756** 12-18-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

well, I do do this thing called look up facts and documentation that I find compelling and what others have posted, then try and form my opinion around what the information tells me, unless in this circumstance, I already have an opinion as we all do, and think its time to act instead of wringing our hands and saying its impossible.

I guess thats pretty short of, as so well stated by others, not reading what I wrote, not reading whats linked, not reading what you wrote, and not reading in general.

In the world of foggy interpretation of barely perceived hype and emotional vulnerability, I guess the logical conclusions would always be the same, that black guy in the white house.

Since you read everything so closely, PLEASE show me where I have directly blamed what this nut did in Connecticutt on anyone in Washington DC....... I'm waiting..........

MS Fowler · #**757** 12-18-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

Until it doesn't work. Until the first armed teacher gets shot anyway through total surprise, then its the next step

I don't. I however see them as so wedded to a single interpretation of the 2nd, that they will refuse to consider a large number of minor adjustments which simply make good sense and do not infringe rights of ownership. Cmbdiesel has posted several of them.

Look up the definition of "infringe". Everything you propose infringes on the right to keep and bear arms. What you consider "adjustments" are actually infringements.

p7fan · #**758** 12-18-2012, 03:14 PM

The idea of arming teachers is out. One word-- LIABILITY...

My wife is a middle school teacher. She is also deadly with a 1911a1.
The regs teachers have these days is crazy. I have a buddy who teaches educational law (at a doctoral level), some of the rules within the school systems are crazy. The inmates run the asylum....

kerry · #**759** 12-18-2012, 03:23 PM

Interesting take on the similarities between rampage killers and suicide bombers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/opinion/what-drives-suicidal-mass-killers.html?_r=0

Air&Road · #**760** 12-18-2012, 03:27 PM

Sure are alot of discharged GI's out there needing jobs. There are all sorts of things that they could be doing at schools in the way of maintenance or other things while at the same time providing a qualified armed person on the premises.

So many of these schools have no problem coming up with millions of dollars for football fields. Surely they can come up with a years salary for a qualified armed worker.

Just sayin'

davidmash · #**761** 12-18-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Look up the definition of "infringe". Everything you propose infringes on the right to keep and bear arms. What you consider "adjustments" are actually infringements.

I believe every right we have has certain limitations. The rights are still there.

i just want the weapons tracked from person to person with a title of ownership. I want all weapons not in use to be secured in a certified safe. If your gun is used in the commission of a crime you better have a dam goo reason why it is no longer in your possession. If your safe was not blown open or you were not mugged, well, you just might be facing some serious problems.

If these things infringe on your rights... oh well. I think the fact that any moron can get a gun with out so much as a how do you do infringes on my right to freedom and happiness.

Most of the so called solutions here are to go into effect once the walls gave been breached and there is no fall back position. That's all fine and dandy. The problem I see with all this is no one bothered to build the wall. Right now there are bunch of stick out there that any one can walk through. No one is trying top limit or prevent the bad guys from continuing to obtain weapons. No one is talking about a requirement for a back ground check for any weapon sold. Making sure weapons are secure.... etc.

By the time the gunman is in the building the risk of someone getting hurt increases exponentially. How about we try and prevent the guy from getting a gun in the first place?

Air&Road · #**762** 12-18-2012, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I believe every right we have has certain limitations. The rights are still there.

So then who gets to decide what is a legitimate infringement? You?

JamesDean · #**763** 12-18-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Look up the definition of "infringe". Everything you propose infringes on the right to keep and bear arms. What you consider "adjustments" are actually infringements.

Quote:

in·fringe
/inˈfrinj/
Verb
1) Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
2) Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".

Synonyms
violate - transgress - break - contravene - trespass

Basically anything that is done will be an infringement in one way or another.

JamesDean · #**764** 12-18-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

So then who gets to decide what is a legitimate infringement? You?

I suppose in this case, should some bill be created, the a majority of votes in:

The House
The Senate

ANDDDDD

wait for it

wait for it

The President, BARACK OBAMA.

There it is.

Obama is now in the thread.

davidmash · #**765** 12-18-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

So then who gets to decide what is a legitimate infringement? You?

You seem to be an advocate of popular votes on other peoples rights.... lets give it a shot.