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  #61  
Old 03-03-2020, 01:31 AM
davidmash's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
A Corvette is not a race car. It's a street car. 10ths of a second are a completely moot point. I'm not gonna argue over abs. Go mash your abs pedal going into a fast decreasing radius corner and see who gets through it better. You on abs or me trail braking properly. F1 uses paddle shifters because races are won by milliseconds. The cars are so even it's all up to mistakes by the drivers or crew. Paddles reduce mistakes. F1 drivers in the 60s 70s 80s were far better drivers. Come out and take some laps in in my drift car and see what I'm talking about. I know exactly what the wheels are doing in a car when I'm driving it. I can feel it in my ass. Watch the f1 movie about Nikki Lauda and James hunt(can't think of the name right now) he says exactly the same thing. I don't care what you think about old tech or what's popular or any of that. The some fact is that all that $hit is taking away from the driving experience. It's ok if you want or need help driving your car. I don't. Never had a traffic accident because of my driving, never wrecked a car because I didn't have abs or traction control, on or off a racetrack. Never enjoyed a car as much with an auto, but my Subaru OBS in the snow was pretty damn fun. 5 speed would have been better though.

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Street cars are what we are talking about. Street cars are not going to encounter an decreasing radius curve while racing another car. They are faster and that is the only point I am making. The computer can shift faster than you can. We are talking about safety on the road. Not race cars. You have an idea what your wheels are doing. A computer knows exactly what the wheels are doing. By the way, if ABS is so bad, why did F1 have to ban it? Like you said, it makes the cars even and leaves it up to a mistake from the driver. It makes them "better" drivers because they cannot drive as a goof as the computer can. If everyone in the room has a calculator they will all come up with the same answer as long as no one keys something in wrong. That is because no one can calculate as well as a computer can.

I have never been in an accident that I cause either either. So what?

You are free to enjoy what ever you want. To slam others for enjoying or taking advantage of the modern tech available is just immature.

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  #62  
Old 03-03-2020, 11:46 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
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We were originally talking about how id rather have a real stick for a pure driving experience and everyone started changing the subject to investing in cars, how it's a dying technology, that computers make better shifts, rev matching saves wesr on the car. Then people accused me of "trolling" which doesn't even apply here. I dont believe I personally bashed anyone except t walgamuth who threw the first punch after proclaiming he had all the answers to my questions then dissapeared. Apparently I raidded him since I asked I him personally before badgering again on my personal build thread. Bit if you all want to be butt hurt so be it. I'll just say it. I'm a better driver than you all and your computers. How else would I beat a modified 2008 330ci twin turbo in an autocross with a 200 hp 3400 pound 450slc on ****ty rear tires? No computers against all of them. Go enjoy your computer clutch pusher. I. Never said you can't. It's just not doing for yourself, " the new way".

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  #63  
Old 03-03-2020, 01:28 PM
davidmash's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
We were originally talking about how id rather have a real stick for a pure driving experience and everyone started changing the subject to investing in cars, how it's a dying technology, that computers make better shifts, rev matching saves wesr on the car. Then people accused me of "trolling" which doesn't even apply here. I dont believe I personally bashed anyone except t walgamuth who threw the first punch after proclaiming he had all the answers to my questions then dissapeared. Apparently I raidded him since I asked I him personally before badgering again on my personal build thread. Bit if you all want to be butt hurt so be it. I'll just say it. I'm a better driver than you all and your computers. How else would I beat a modified 2008 330ci twin turbo in an autocross with a 200 hp 3400 pound 450slc on ****ty rear tires? No computers against all of them. Go enjoy your computer clutch pusher. I. Never said you can't. It's just not doing for yourself, " the new way".

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No one changed the topic. Tom made one comment about a Ferrari being a better investment as a stick vs auto.

Your comments were a bit more than you just talking about your driving experience. Your first post started with you crticizing others.

Quote:
Add in a bunch of kids who grew up playing video games and can't or don't want to learn how to drive. If you honestly prefer a paddle shifter (While driving fast) you can't drive a manual to a very high level. A manual with a clutch pedal is infinitely more enjoyable to drive FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY GOOD AT IT. I don't need a computer to rev match when I down shift. It's BS there is no full manual car. They should have it setup where you can put it in manual and use the clutch pedal and shifter or put it in auto. The technology is there. There are companys that make real shifter conversions for Ferraris. The majority of the rich guys that can afford these cars can't drive so they would look real dumb stalling thier cars at the valet. Bottom line is for 10ths of a second off lap times and sales brochures flappy paddle nonsense wins. For real driving enthusiast manual wins. If you disagree you are not fully comfortable driving stick.
Bunch of kids ≠ your driving experience.
you cant drive a manual ≠ your driving experience
People that are very good at it ≠ your driving experience
If you disagree ≠ your driving experience

You may not have bashed any one by name but you have bashed anyone who disagrees with your opinion. So please spare us the faux self righteousness indignation.

You do not know me or my driving skills. You may or may not be better. And I honestly do not care. As for your BMW story, all that proves is you are a better driver than the person driving the BMW. It proves nothing else. My guess is that if two people of equal skill were driving, your SLC would have been toast. The weight diff alone would have seen to that.

Enjoy your manual. No one here cares or begrudges you for it. I have no interest in them any more. I drive in DFW where we have traffic and manuals are a PIA. My car, as for many, is transportation to get me from A to B in as much comfort and safety as I can afford. My C250 is infinitly more safe than your SLC or my old 19E. If someone hits me, the odds of me walking away from the crash are exponentially better than yours. So, while you enjoy your stick in an antique car, the odds are that I will not be impaled by said stick in my car which has a safer passenger compartment, air bags and auto tensioning belts.

You can make any argument you want for a manual. No need to knock others for not liking them or wanting them.
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #64  
Old 03-03-2020, 05:03 PM
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Not really bashing the people dissagreeing. Just bashing the reasons why it is a non manual car now. Go drive a camary or a Mercedes sedan , or an automatic Corvette. The manual should still absolutely be an option. I'll even say there a good chance it comes back, there is plenty of people besides myself that are actual prospective buyers not happy about it. Same with the Supra. That will have a stick I'm almost certain, they have been swapped already too. My driving experience is put out there to be on par with many people that think the same way, driving enthusiast, racers, people of that nature. Again. If driving a car yourself at a high level isn't satisfying to you (or whoever) great. Rev matching with the side of my foot while still applying the brakes smoothly going into a turn makes me happy. So does dumping the clutch and a host of other things that a new dual clutch third pedal-less car are not going to allow. Lots of people agree with that. The sultan in dubia has every supercar on the planet at his disposal. His favorites? Ferrari f40 and Maserati mc12. Manual trans, no computer interference. Pure driving,you and the car. Every time something is taken over by a machine/computer an art is lost. In 20 years no one will have a clue how to drive stick except any racing that it's still mandatory I'd guess. I'd still love to see a compromise. Put the stick and the pedal in there. Have an auto mode. That simple. I'm sure these milliseconds reacting computers can figure out if you're up or downshifting and hit the right clutch. You are all crying about how it's the right thing to let them take it away as much as I'm saying it's not.

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  #65  
Old 03-03-2020, 11:22 PM
Skid Row Joe's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Not really bashing the people dissagreeing. Just bashing the reasons why it is a non manual car now. Go drive a camary or a Mercedes sedan , or an automatic Corvette. The manual should still absolutely be an option. I'll even say there a good chance it comes back, there is plenty of people besides myself that are actual prospective buyers not happy about it. Same with the Supra. That will have a stick I'm almost certain, they have been swapped already too. My driving experience is put out there to be on par with many people that think the same way, driving enthusiast, racers, people of that nature. Again. If driving a car yourself at a high level isn't satisfying to you (or whoever) great. Rev matching with the side of my foot while still applying the brakes smoothly going into a turn makes me happy. So does dumping the clutch and a host of other things that a new dual clutch third pedal-less car are not going to allow. Lots of people agree with that. The sultan in dubia has every supercar on the planet at his disposal. His favorites? Ferrari f40 and Maserati mc12. Manual trans, no computer interference. Pure driving,you and the car. Every time something is taken over by a machine/computer an art is lost. In 20 years no one will have a clue how to drive stick except any racing that it's still mandatory I'd guess. I'd still love to see a compromise. Put the stick and the pedal in there. Have an auto mode. That simple. I'm sure these milliseconds reacting computers can figure out if you're up or downshifting and hit the right clutch. You are all crying about how it's the right thing to let them take it away as much as I'm saying it's not.
So, it's a safe bet that you don't own a C7 M7 then.
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  #66  
Old 03-03-2020, 11:24 PM
davidmash's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Not really bashing the people dissagreeing. Just bashing the reasons why it is a non manual car now. Go drive a camary or a Mercedes sedan , or an automatic Corvette. The manual should still absolutely be an option. I'll even say there a good chance it comes back, there is plenty of people besides myself that are actual prospective buyers not happy about it. Same with the Supra. That will have a stick I'm almost certain, they have been swapped already too. My driving experience is put out there to be on par with many people that think the same way, driving enthusiast, racers, people of that nature. Again. If driving a car yourself at a high level isn't satisfying to you (or whoever) great. Rev matching with the side of my foot while still applying the brakes smoothly going into a turn makes me happy. So does dumping the clutch and a host of other things that a new dual clutch third pedal-less car are not going to allow. Lots of people agree with that. The sultan in dubia has every supercar on the planet at his disposal. His favorites? Ferrari f40 and Maserati mc12. Manual trans, no computer interference. Pure driving,you and the car. Every time something is taken over by a machine/computer an art is lost. In 20 years no one will have a clue how to drive stick except any racing that it's still mandatory I'd guess. I'd still love to see a compromise. Put the stick and the pedal in there. Have an auto mode. That simple. I'm sure these milliseconds reacting computers can figure out if you're up or downshifting and hit the right clutch. You are all crying about how it's the right thing to let them take it away as much as I'm saying it's not.

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Pick a team and run with it.


Nah.. you were bashing.
Quote:
If you disagree you are not fully comfortable driving stick.
If by plenty you mean a few then no, sticks will not come back. Also, the Supra will not have a manual. The only way to get it is after market.
https://www.motor1.com/news/364746/toyota-supra-getting-manual-not-factory/
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #67  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:00 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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I never promised you a rose garden or all the answers, but I will be happy to race you.
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #68  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:12 AM
davidmash's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I never promised you a rose garden or all the answers, but I will be happy to race you.
I got $5 on Tom.
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2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #69  
Old 03-04-2020, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I never promised you a rose garden or all the answers, but I will be happy to race you.
Well considering I'm doing a 5 cyl in to a 4 cyl car swap with a 4 speed you kinda did. Least you could have done was say you didn't have the actuall info you said you did. guess you were trolling me. Sounds great, what are we racing and on what? Dirt, pavement, oval? Go karts? I hardly consider my SLC a race car but I'd be happy to let you do laps in my car.

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  #70  
Old 03-04-2020, 03:27 AM
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I've probably told this story before. I recently sold my last (of two) 325i (s-plural). It had about 450K, had an electronic gremlin I spent a few hundred bucks trying to find with no luck. Probably needed a new harness. Would run great until it warmed up then would die, would not start til a day or two later.

I loved me the 5 speed on that car ... except during rainy, short days, traffic would get very heavy, I'd br crawling home for 30 to 60 minutes in the dark and my left foot really started complaining about that stiff clutch. That ankle is a bit tender from a few two many sprains over the years. I developed techniques for minimal shifting at stop and go speeds.

I may find another cherry someday, something just broke in with about 200K, they are still out there, definitely with a 5 speed but it won't be a daily driver.
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  #71  
Old 03-04-2020, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Well considering I'm doing a 5 cyl in to a 4 cyl car swap with a 4 speed you kinda did. Least you could have done was say you didn't have the actuall info you said you did. guess you were trolling me. Sounds great, what are we racing and on what? Dirt, pavement, oval? Go karts? I hardly consider my SLC a race car but I'd be happy to let you do laps in my car.

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Somewhere along the line you decided to put a 617 turbo motor into a 115 chassis. I never got that information until you had already been rude to me. In any case I would not recommend putting that motor into the 115 chassis because too many things are different. It is a swap I have never done.

As for racing, we're probably too far apart to pull it off but perhaps we could meet up at an autocross somewhere halfway between. I am a fairly slow driver compared to the numerous national champions I have competed alongside and against in our SCCA Indy region, but I have a fast C mod.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Last edited by t walgamuth; 03-04-2020 at 08:26 AM.
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  #72  
Old 03-04-2020, 08:53 AM
blt blt is offline
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Back in the day I owned a Honda CRX-Si, a Mazda Rx7 and a Acura RSX Type S. I even converted my 66 Mustang from a C4 to a T5. I should also note I own a Volkswagon camper with a 4 speed manual.


I like driving cars with manual transmissions. In fact I am thinking about buying a Subaru BRZ with the manual. It isn't the fastest beast on the road, but they are fun to drive, and that is what I am looking for.


I understand why the manufactures are focused on the autos, but I like shifting on my own.
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  #73  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:18 AM
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The BRXs are very competitive in D street scca.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #74  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
The BRXs are very competitive in D street scca.
I see them as a smaller 240Z. They weigh about 700 lbs more but due to all the modern electronics and safety standards yet have very similar HP to weight ratios.

1972 240Z 2300 lbs 150 HP 4 speed (15.33 lbs/HP)
2020 BRZ 3000 lbs 200 HP 6 speed (15.00 lbs/HP)
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  #75  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:48 PM
A Talent for Obfuscation
 
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
So, it's a safe bet that you don't own a C7 M7 then.
Nice car, Joe. You didn't stint on the spec!

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