If he had the head removed and reinstalled the camshaft 180 degrees from the desired location, the IP and crankshaft are correct but the camshaft is not.

Since he didn't mention removal of the IP during this "event", it's probably not a wise idea to remove and reinstall the IP..........although the result would be functionally the same.

Oh well i did not remove ip when i took the head off, i did rotate th engine when head was in the shop, before reassembly 1st piston was at tdc and marks on cam tower and cam was aligned , 100% that chain skipped when i was rotating engine without head ,it happened couple of times ., so again any tips on removing IP?
thanks

Very true, but, was piston at TDC after compression stroke or was piston at TDC after exhaust stroke?

The IP position would be the only thing that determines this answer, because the camshaft and crankshaft are proper with respect to each other.

Either the IP must go 180 degrees...........or the crankshaft must go 360 degrees with respect to the IP and camshaft..........or the camshaft must go 180 degrees.

Your choice.

This is exactly how I screwed up. #1 was at TDC, but it wasn't the "compression stroke" Cam lobes shoulda been a dead "give away"

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

In theory, any one of the three "variables" could be adjusted to solve the problem. The original cause of the problem is not relevant.

Given the very real possibility that the IP might need to be reindexed anyway in order to adjust the timing, I would recommend removing the IP.

I guess that's my point. I'm not so sure the ip is going to need to be reindexed. That's why I'd work on the others first. But you are right, the origin of the problem isn't relevant. I would proceed with caution, especially if you're not certain the cam is in correct position.

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1998 E300D, 287k, barely broken in.

I realize that pulling the IP on the 617 is allot more hassle than on my 616, but I got so fouled up that in the end I pulled and reset the IP at the 24 degree mark, rotated the crank to TDC (comp stroke), set the cam, rotated the engine by hand a couple times and timed the IP. (it was almost spot on) I would do it that way if there is any doubts about the crank, IP relationship.

__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

I'd agree, however, the IP usually has a "notch" that belongs in a certain position in the IP timer........does it not? While not mandatory to "follow the book", it's kinder to the mechanic who follows some time in the future.

It will be in the right place.

Think about it like this:
When the notch is in the "right" place in the current configuration, the #1 piston is coming up on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke.
Remove the IP, turn the crank 360 degrees, then reinstall IP.
The notch doesn't move.

Alternatively, rotate the IP 180 degrees. The notch moves to the "right" place from being 180 degrees out. Essentially, nothing different than what one would do when installing a replacement IP.

I am a big proponent of following the book. If the book had been followed, we would not be having this discussion!!!

Well i ll start with cam, and see what will happen, if it wont help then its ip ,
,so cam will have to go back to last position ,shoud have it by tomorrow night.
Thanks everyone for help

Not having removed the IP, I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here. Doesn't the IP have a notch that is aligned with a feature on the gear for the IP timer? There is a "proper" position of the IP with respect to the timer?

Presuming this to be the case, the IP is currently in the "proper" position and rotating it by 180 degrees will put it in an "improper" position.

If this were not the case, then the position of the notch would be irrelevant, which I don't believe to be true.

If the cam was installed 180 off, you would not be turning the engine. The vales would hit.

If you did a valve job, and for some reason, why I don't know, turned the engine over while the head was off, the pump is off. It is going to be much less work to just set the engine to TDC, remove the IP, align the marks on the IP, replace the IP gasket and grease both sides so it does not tear when timing the IP. Reinstall the IP and use the low pressure (drip) method to retime the IP. Remember to do two things when timing:
1) Remove all vacuum lines to IP, and make sure the IP is at FULL THROTTLE (and of coarse the cam lobes are "up")
2) Set the IP at 24-23.5 if you have not replaced the chain. If you have replaced the chain, set the pump at 25. When the chain stretches, it retards the timing, i.e., when you loose much power due to IP pump off timing, time to put a chain in .

If the camshaft was 180 degrees off, there would be no problem whatsoever with the valve timing. (The crankshaft being 180 degrees off would be different.)

To illustrate, let's say the the #1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke. The head is removed, the camshaft is rotated 180 degrees, then the head is reinstalled. The #1 piston is now at TDC on the exhaust stroke. Valve timing is correct. The injection timing is 180 degrees retarded.

Sure about that?

Go put an intrusion engine on tdc, and set the cam 180 off, then crank it, you tell me what will happen

And yeah, I am sure about that, seeing as though I have been specializing in Benz for the last 15 years

TF is correct.

There will be no interference with the valves if the camshaft is set 180 degrees off the "correct" position. The valves will open and close on the compression/power strokes instead of the exhaust/intake strokes.

The only thing that defines the strokes is the injection event. Without injection, the camshaft can operate the valves in either of two positions..............0 degrees and 180 degrees.