dissembling R4 compressor - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #61 07-13-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doktor Bert

... dealership in the early 1980s and we had all the tools to rebuild the R-4 and A-6 compressors.

Key phrase.

Yak · #62 07-13-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

I spoke to Compressor Works tech support again yesterday. Their R4 has a double lip seal design that has a 10 x less leak rate than the old Delco R4's before the 80's. The new double lip seal design does not need and does not have an oil hole and therefore does not have a mark. on the cover. It is lubricated entirely by the freon/oil mist. If the compressor is a reman old R4, I guess it is possible the oil hole orientation may not have been observed during the rebuilt process.

Layback, the oil hole leads to a cavity which feeds both the bearing and the seal.
There are 2 seals actually. The white thing I called a spacer earlier is a ceramic seal which does not contact the shaft but rather butts against the spring loaded inner seal. The Compressor Works R4 does not use a ceramic seal and has just a double lip seal.

I am not sure if that's rust or corrosion or just discoloration. I'll take another look when I get time. That compressor is pretty dry inside and good only for disection. I am going to grind the casing off so I can look inside and that's as far as I'll go on that R4.

Cool. You're doing my homework for me. Still waiting on some parts before I install it.

And Beavis and Butthead would bust up about the parts on the website. You're really looking at the "large shaft double lip seal"????

panZZer · #63 07-13-2010, 07:30 PM

Get rid of it for the kind without the screws around the hub-it will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere if the hub comes loose and the belt gets caught up with the others.

85chedeng300D · #64 07-13-2010, 08:24 PM

Here's a picture of my Factory Air by 4 Seasons R$ AC Compressor Part # 58228...

There is no "X" or "O" mark except it has this embossed inverted triangle or an arrow-head mark which I assume that is an equivalent of the "X" or "O" oil hole mark that is supposed to be on the 12 o'clock or top position when installed in an MB but if you notice in the picture the triangle is at the bottom 6 o'clock position... as I mentioned at the other thread about an inverted AC....

Does that mean that I won't be expecting a long compressor life? It was installed in the Spring of 2007...

funola · #65 07-13-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

Cool. You're doing my homework for me. Still waiting on some parts before I install it.

And Beavis and Butthead would bust up about the parts on the website. You're really looking at the "large shaft double lip seal"????

The large shaft lip seal p/n I found in the ACKIT forum where it was said that's the correct p/n for the R4. I called back and was told to measure the diameter of the shaft and call them back to get the correct seal p/n. There are different shaft diameters used in R4 compressors supposedly.

funola · #66 07-13-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

Get rid of it for the kind without the screws around the hub-it will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere if the hub comes loose and the belt gets caught up with the others.

Has it happened to you? Has it happened to anyone here?

funola · #67 07-13-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85chedeng300D

Here's a picture of my Factory Air by 4 Seasons R$ AC Compressor Part # 58228...

There is no "X" or "O" mark except it has this embossed inverted triangle or an arrow-head mark which I assume that is an equivalent of the "X" or "O" oil hole mark that is supposed to be on the 12 o'clock or top position when installed in an MB but if you notice in the picture the triangle is at the bottom 6 o'clock position... as I mentioned at the other thread about an inverted AC....

Does that mean that I won't be expecting a long compressor life? It was installed in the Spring of 2007...

Your best bet is to call up Four Seasons and ask them whether that mark means anything and how the bearing is lubricated.

panZZer · #68 07-14-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Has it happened to you? Has it happened to anyone here?

It happened to a guy who came by and bought some parts from me the other day--and it happened in the middle of nowhere in west Tx

funola · #69 07-14-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

It happened to a guy who came by and bought some parts from me the other day--and it happened in the middle of nowhere in west Tx

Well, that's one case. If I hear they're falling off left and right, then I'd worry about it. Having taken an R4 apart, the only way the clutch could fall off is if the center nut has come off or the main shaft has snapped.

Yak · #70 07-14-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Well, that's one case. If I hear they're falling off left and right, then I'd worry about it. Having taken an R4 apart, the only way the clutch could fall off is if the center nut has come off or the main shaft has snapped.

I was confused by this at first, but tend to agree with Funola. But I don't think panZZer meant the clutch would fall off (and you'd also need to lose the square key after the nut fell off for that to happen).

For the part of the clutch with the belt groove to fail and foul the other belts a few consecutive bad things would have to happen. I would suspect a bad compressor (seized?), or a bad clutch (slipping?), or a bad belt (old?) or a bad bearing (worn out due bad clutch?) before I suspected the bolts on the clutch as a failure mechanism for causing an A/C belt to foul the other belts.

My new clutch doesn't have the bolts, but it still has a bearing, the compressor itself, etc etc.

Also having just disassembled a clutch with bolts, unless there is something else wrong with your compressor or pulleys, the clutch bolts would be the least of my worries.

The alternator tensioning bolt on the other hand...

funola · #71 07-14-2010, 09:26 PM

Yeah not sure what panZZer meant. What did you mean panZZer would you clarify?

I've had the alternator belt break and it took out the AC compressor clutch solenoid terminals so I'm more worroid about that. When I swapped in a good solenoid coil, I put the terminals at 5 o'clock so if the alternator belt breaks again, there's much less chance of taking out the terminals.

I emailed ACKITS.COM and asked about what's needed in replacing the seals for the R4 and this is their response:

Here is a list of the part numbers you will need to remove the clutch, remove and replace the seal and install the clutch as well as the seal number. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks.

Clutch Removal/Installation Tool Kit – 91000-A
Double Lip Seal – 21-34659
Seal Remover/Installer – 90486
Shaft Seal Protector – 90484
Mineral Oil – 41-50000
Clutch Bearing – 23-30102

-------------------------------------------------
Take Care,
Adam Thilges
Web Sites
Auto A/C Online Store: www.ackits.com
Auto A/C Forum: www.autoacforum.com

panZZer · #72 07-14-2010, 09:50 PM

I didn't pay that much attention to what he was telling me--just that the thing came loose on him and the belts got tangled somehow and he told me since im doing a swap to make sure not to use the kind with the screws around the hub because it was a bad design, and I have two good ones so--How do i get the oil out to start with fresh as allabassy said. Im going r12 and it looks like by the fittings in parts car(s) that none were ever changed over.

Doktor Bert · #73 04-29-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Key phrase.

You do not need these tools and not all dealerships had them!!!! It's great if you do, buut not a requirement.

You will need the tool to pull and install the clutch. They sell them on E-Bay.

You will need a pair of snap ring pliers. You should also buy the full seal kit.

I pull the front hub off (4 bolts) and drive the seal out from the backside. This way, you do not risk scratching the shaft. While the hub is off, look at the internals and drain out any oil.

Lube the square 'O' ring and re-install the front hub. There are 2 types of front seals:

1. 1-Piece Lip Seal (like a front pump seal

2. Multi-Part Carbon Seal

Be sure to put back in what came out. All of the R4's I have been working on recently have had the lip seal. I have resealed about 10 so far this month for my buddies as the weather here is starting to warm up.

The seal kit will come with a seal protector.

Make the band tool from a junk R-4:

Take a cutter wheel in a die grinder or shop saw and cut through the band of an old compressor. Die grind notches in one end to clear the bolt bosses as required.

Tack weld the band together with a small strip of metal so that it will slip on and off the old compressor without only slight resistance.

Now, bend the locking tab up on your 'good' R-4 and place it on a large, metal coffee can in a press. Any Harbor Frieght hydraulic press will work.

Place your 'tool' on top your compressor band and lay a 2X4 block across the band. Press down until the 'good' sealing band falls off.

Inspect, install the (2) large lip seals, lubricate them with compressor oil and install in the reverse order of disassembly, using your 'tool' to reseat the band. bend the locking tab back into place.

Some leakage of oil (under pressure) wll take place for the first day or so of operation as the oil is worked out from between the band and the compressor body.

I will post some photos of my homemade tool if you like.

Hope this helps...Robert

Doktor Bert · #74 04-29-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

The chances of any normal human being having all the special tools to do this correctly is zero....

Not exactly true. Have you seen the 'skilled labor' working in some of these shops????

We already have one forum member who recently paid a 'reputable Benz shop' a small fortune to fix his A/C and it is a dismal mess.

The dealers I worked for DID NOT have the tools and they frequently borrowed them from the local GM dealer, or actually sent the MBZ's to the GM dealer and farmed out the compressor work.

You can make the band removal tool, as I have outlined.

You can buy the tool to remove/install the clutch online.

The snap ring pliers are cheap.

Once the clutch and coil have been pulled, the front hub is retained by 4 bolts. Take it off so you do not gouge the shaft by pushing the seal out from the backside. Nothing will fly out at you.

Get a GM shop manual. The 1975 Pontiac FSM has a very simple and detailed overhaul protocol, much more clear than the MBZ manual.

As always, my tech support is free via PM or E-Mail.

Best of luck...Robert

Doktor Bert · #75 04-29-2011, 08:51 PM

Bottom line:

In most cases, the average DIY Benz enthusiast will do more research, take more time and devote more care to their repair than most of the technicians that are employed by Benz shops.

Do not let yourself be discouraged from fixing your Benz...Robert

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