A subframe question (just the beginning ...) - Page 8 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BodhiBenz1987 · #**106** 12-06-2010, 02:08 AM

Newest puzzle: I finally got the parking shoes off (I hate to think what getting that back ON is going to be like) and removed the bolts that hold the dust shield on, but that dust shield does not move ... I've tried prying at it from all angles with a big screwdriver, but I noticed it has a sort of foam padding glued behind it? Is it just rusted on, or am I missing something here? I still have to get the cable undone (I can't get a punch on that little pin

), but shouldn't i be able to at least wiggle the dust shield? Everything is off the carrier other than the cable and shield, so I could just take the whole thing to have my indy pop the bearings out and in ... but I'd really like to be able to turn that dust shield to get the linkage bolted on!

Fulcrum525 · #**107** 12-06-2010, 09:18 AM

It's a good time in this thread to insert a little humor....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUqKNYDeUI8

BodhiBenz1987 · #**108** 12-18-2010, 05:30 PM

Hi guys, nothing new or exciting to report ... I left the wheel carriers off at my mechanic's a few days ago but he hasn't had time to get them done. I told him it wasn't a rush since I have the other car to drive and he's got pretty high volume right now. I shouldn't have been so honest, I really, really want them back so I can start putting the car back together.
The only thing that isn't done is the spring link bushings (the inside ones ... my indy offered to throw the carrier bearings in while he had the carriers) ... I cannot get them out and I'm considering taking them to the mechanic too to press them in and out. I made a tool out of a bolt, washers and a piece of pipe but the bolt snapped in half. Also tried using the shop press and the piece of pipe, but the link just slipped off the pipe sideways. Maybe if I torch them a bit it will help. Other suggestions?

BodhiBenz1987 · #**109** 01-01-2011, 05:06 PM

After a long wait for my wheel carriers and holiday preoccupation, I'm reassembling this today. I've got the frame all bolted back together on the ground but have two questions before I proceed to tighten it up and lift it to the car.
1) Each bolt kit for the arms came with three bolts, a long one (obviously the outer bolt) and two short ones. One short one with an XZN head and threads only at the end, and one completely threaded with a hex head. I used the hex head bolts because they looked like the ones that came off the car, but I'm wondering if there's any reason I should use the others. The same kit came with the thrust arm, control arm and camber arm, some maybe they don't all use the same bolts. I don't see how it would make much difference, but it must, otherwise why would they include the bolt choices?
2) I know the wheel carriers have to be "horizontal" when tightening the bolts up, but can I tighten everything up on the ground at least enough the arms are all firmly in position? It's a bit floppy at the moment.
I'm going to proceed on my best judgment but if someone can chime in to give me peace of mind, would be much appreciated.

compress ignite · #**110** 01-03-2011, 09:43 AM

May be 'Cause Dual use of "Repair Kits" (W201 and W124 Chassis)
You're proceeding correctly,Matching up the New,Replacement Bolt,Washers,Nuts with the O.E. as they came on the chassis.

compress ignite · #**111** 01-03-2011, 09:47 AM

(With the Chassis resting on the suspension/subframe in "Road Ready" state.
To prevent "Preloading" of the Bushings. Disclaimer,My Interpretation!)

FSM's exact wording:
"Only tighten Hexagon Nut when rear axle is Horizontal."

(Now HTF are we suppossed to achieve that without the kind of lift that raises
the Chassis By The Wheels???)

I'm a thinking,Front wheels on Ramps...
Jack the rear up (using rubber jack points) High enough to insert another set
of Rhino Ramps underneath the rear wheels,and Maybe have enough wiggle room to get in there and wrench?

GSXR(Dave) did this on his garage floor (Without a Lift) so we know it's doable.

vstech · #**112** 01-03-2011, 09:51 AM

pit? be REALLY skinny?

compress ignite · #**113** 01-03-2011, 10:00 AM

NFNF (Dad's Favorite Admonition,when one of us was too self involved)
["No Fool(Ishness),No Fun(Times)."]

On the Safe DIY Procedure for this Conundrum.

Thanks!

vstech · #**114** 01-03-2011, 10:26 AM

ok, sorry, I had to do it.

what I do is place the jackstands under the ball joints. but you have to have VERY solid jackstands.
ramps are another good way to support the vehicle loaded on the subframe.

babymog · #**115** 01-03-2011, 10:38 AM

I did mine on the ground. Left all settings shy of snug, installed the wheels and lowered the car, rolled the car bacward/forward to remove the side-loading and settle the suspension, checked/set alignment, torqued the bolts. Not difficult to torque the bolts laying on the floor (using the cardboard-creeper).

BodhiBenz1987 · #**116** 01-03-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

I did mine on the ground. Left all settings shy of snug, installed the wheels and lowered the car, rolled the car bacward/forward to remove the side-loading and settle the suspension, checked/set alignment, torqued the bolts. Not difficult to torque the bolts laying on the floor (using the cardboard-creeper).

But how do you tighten the nut behind the wheel, on the thrust arm, if the wheels are on? I can most likely fit, some of my pants are getting a little tight but I'm still pretty skinny.

... the problem is accessing the bolts; I'm having a hard time imaging getting a socket let alone the large torque wrench in some of those spots with the wheel on.
gsxr explained the way he did it as: jack up under the wheel carrier until the ride height (center of wheel to fender lip) is ~15 inches, then tighten. I'm leaning toward that way, if I ever get to it ... I was going to lift it back up last night but I hit a deer in my beautiful Jeep and have spent all my time since then dealing with that.

babymog · #**117** 01-03-2011, 07:51 PM

I apologize for my haste in replying, I was thinking of the front suspension.

In the rear, I had the car on jack-stands, when ready to tighten the suspension components I lifted the brake rotor (parking brake set) with a floor-jack until it was in ride-position. This is a bit of a trick if both rear wheels are off since the swaybar will carry enough of the load to lift the car off of the jackstand, ...

gsxr · #**118** 01-06-2011, 11:21 AM

Sorry I'm late to the party here, but anyway. The easiest method to tighten all the rear links is to life the rear wheel carrier into the "loaded" position with the car still jacked up. Ideally you would have measured this height before starting the job, but for stock suspension, approx 15 inches from fender lip to wheel (hub) center is close enough (make that 14" for lowered/Sportline setups). Disconnect the sway bar on both ends. Remove the rear coil spring, jack wheel carrier up to the ~15" level, tighten all links. Reinstall spring & reconnect sway bar ends.

If your spring compressor does not have the ability to remove the rear springs without disconnecting the LCA (which is a strong possibility, unless you have the special Klann short-shaft for rear springs) there is another option. First disconnect the sway bar. Then compress the spring as much as you can, and see if that will get you to the ~15" point. If not, remove the inner LCA bolt and pull out the spring. Put the LCA bolt back in loosely. Tighten all the other links. Reinstall spring and inner LCA bolt, but DO NOT tighten it. Reconnect sway bar ends. Lower the car on the ground with large blocks of wood (say, 3-4" thick) under the tires - this gives you more space to slide under the car. Add weight in the trunk to attain the 15" distance from wheel center to fender lip. Slide under car and tighten the inner LCA bolt. The end.

About the Loctite 574 anaerobic sealant... where the FSM specifies using this stuff, IMNSHO it's just not worth using anything else. Red Loctite is not even remotely similar and should never be used. I've seen many variations of silicone or similar sealants used instead, but again this is not a good idea. Click here and here for photos of the MB stuff... it's not that expensive, use either one, they are the same sealant just made by different mfr's (LocTite vs OmniFit).

Nice work on the subframe, btw! Looks great! My one other tip is to replace all the rubber hoses which connect to the fuel tank, and the rubber boots which seal the openings to the fuel tank area. Change (or remove) the tank strainer as well. It will NEVER be easier than with the subframe removed. Do it now and you'll not have to touch it for another 250k+ miles.

BodhiBenz1987 · #**119** 01-06-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Ideally you would have measured this height before starting the job, but for stock suspension, approx 15 inches from fender lip to wheel (hub) center is close enough (make that 14" for lowered/Sportline setups). Disconnect the sway bar on both ends. Remove the rear coil spring, jack wheel carrier up to the ~15" level, tighten all links. Reinstall spring & reconnect sway bar ends.

I'm not sure measuring it beforehand would have been to good a reference point, because one side was actually lower than the other.

Not sure if that was due to a worn subframe mount or some part of the linkage, but hopefully it won't be the case when everything's all put together ...
The compressor I borrowed did get the springs out with everything attached, so hopefully can get them back in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

About the Loctite 574 anaerobic sealant... where the FSM specifies using this stuff, IMNSHO it's just not worth using anything else.

I used the Permatex version of Loctite 574, not the red threadlocker Advanced told me to use (

). The NAPA guy called Permatex and they gave him the equivalent product. I thought Permatex and Loctite were the same company?

I can get the number off the package when I get home. I can take them back out and put the specific sealer in but I hate to do that if this one's OK. The FSM just said "sealing compound (e.g. Curil, Loctite 574 or Hylomar)."

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Nice work on the subframe, btw! Looks great! My one other tip is to replace all the rubber hoses which connect to the fuel tank, and the rubber boots which seal the openings to the fuel tank area. Change (or remove) the tank strainer as well. It will NEVER be easier than with the subframe removed. Do it now and you'll not have to touch it for another 250k+ miles.

Thanks.

I'm debating whether to do the tank strainer now or suffer later. Advantage of doing it later would be doing it outside, and after I run the tank to near-empty. I don't know if I can handle a face full of diesel in a sealed-up garage right now. How much harder is it with the subframe on? Worse than brake lines?

gsxr · #**120** 01-06-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

The compressor I borrowed did get the springs out with everything attached, so hopefully can get them back in.

Excellent! One warning - after tightening all the bolts at the ~15" level, you'll find that you will need to push down on the wheel carrier to get it all the way down (to the travel limit of the shock). You'll need to do this to get the compressed spring back into the LCA. It will make more sense once you get to this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

I'm debating whether to do the tank strainer now or suffer later. Advantage of doing it later would be doing it outside, and after I run the tank to near-empty. I don't know if I can handle a face full of diesel in a sealed-up garage right now. How much harder is it with the subframe on? Worse than brake lines?

IIRC, access to the strainer area is a real nuisance with the subframe fully installed. Siphon the tank empty first and there should be only a quart or two of fuel left, so you'll get just a sprinkle instead of a bath. A large socket (46mm, like

this one) is needed to unscrew the strainer.