Installing a Sanden compressor on a 617- looking at all options - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ROLLGUY · #46 07-06-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Yes, the different back plate choices is one of the things that makes the Sanden so versatile. The fact that you can mount it in most any position is another.

The Sanden is pretty much the mainstay of the aftermarket a/c world for these reasons, PLUS the fact that it is a well built compressor.

You can even get a polished one at any speed shop for about $140. That would sure look good next to my dirty engine!

mach4 · #47 07-06-2012, 11:53 AM

I'm still wondering about the possibility of drilling and tapping the holes in the front of the block that the NA blocks use. I'd have to believe that the casting in that location hasn't changed. This would provide the opportunity to fully support the critical front of the bracket where the belt pressure and vibration are the greatest. Holes shown in yellow and red area represents welded on front support.

It would emulate the aluminum one posted earlier where the front casting takes all the load and the rear casting is just support for the rear of the compressor.

This also puts the mounting bolts in shear rather than in tension. I understand that this strategy would take the project out of the realm of "bolt on", but hey, it's not our fault MB eliminated a good set of mounting points on the front of the engine when they added a turbo!

my123ca · #48 07-06-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach4

I'm still wondering about the possibility of drilling and tapping the holes in the front of the block that the NA blocks use.

Thats my plan when its time to rebuild/replace my engine.

Air&Road · #49 07-06-2012, 02:14 PM

You've done a nice job with your fabrication, but I hope those end tabs are not 1/8" strap. In my experience, 1/8" will not be heavy enough. They need to be 1/4" or better.

I remember seeing some light mounts in aftermarket a/c systems in the fifties that would break quickly. I was only a little kid then, but my Dad put in and serviced lots of aftermarket a/c systems in those days and I remember seeing stuff break and him insisting on heavy mount kits and telling his customers that the more expensive pieces were worth the extra money.

ROLLGUY · #50 07-06-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

You've done a nice job with your fabrication, but I hope those end tabs are not 1/8" strap. In my experience, 1/8" will not be heavy enough. They need to be 1/4" or better.

The prototype has 2 pieces of 1/8 together (tabs used in ornamental iron work) to equal 1/4". The final product will be 1/4" stock.

ROLLGUY · #51 07-06-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach4

I'm still wondering about the possibility of drilling and tapping the holes in the front of the block that the NA blocks use. I'd have to believe that the casting in that location hasn't changed. This would provide the opportunity to fully support the critical front of the bracket where the belt pressure and vibration are the greatest. Holes shown in yellow and red area represents welded on front support.

That looks like the bolts would be right where the chain guide is. If it was possible to drill and tap, I doubt anyone would want to do it with the engine in the car. It is also not a DIY job for some. Drilling and tapping cast iron can be tricky, so I don't believe that is an option for this bracket.
I still believe that using 3 pan bolts will work. Most of the load is supported by the large plate and it's mounting. The bottom would only need to provide enough support so the plate does not vibrate.

panZZer · #52 07-06-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

That looks like the bolts would be right where the chain guide is. If it was possible to drill and tap, I doubt anyone would want to do it with the engine in the car. It is also not a DIY job for some. Drilling and tapping cast iron can be tricky, so I don't believe that is an option for this bracket.
I still believe that using 3 pan bolts will work. Most of the load is supported by the large plate and it's mounting. The bottom would only need to provide enough support so the plate does not vibrate.

I think the sanden does its job with less going on inside than an r4 and for sure --a york. so im hopeing you are right.

mach4 · #53 07-06-2012, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

That looks like the bolts would be right where the chain guide is. If it was possible to drill and tap, I doubt anyone would want to do it with the engine in the car. It is also not a DIY job for some. Drilling and tapping cast iron can be tricky, so I don't believe that is an option for this bracket.
I still believe that using 3 pan bolts will work. Most of the load is supported by the large plate and it's mounting. The bottom would only need to provide enough support so the plate does not vibrate.

You're probably right. I guess we won't know until it's installed and running for many miles. Certainly doing some finite element analysis on the bracket as part of the engineering process is beyond the scope. If there's room some stiffeners welded on the rear would probably help.

In your final design are you going with 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 plate for the bracket?

Air&Road · #54 07-06-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

The prototype has 2 pieces of 1/8 together (tabs used in ornamental iron work) to equal 1/4". The final product will be 1/4" stock.

Very good!

1980sd · #55 07-06-2012, 07:51 PM

This version appears more stout and has more mounting bolts than mine and I've tested it for about a year with a LOT of miles without any problems other than some belt tensioning hiccups not related to how the bracket was mounted.

I say throw some gussets on the rear of the plate or along the bottom for *****s and giggles and go with it. I had some issues a couple of weeks ago which caused a lot of clutch cycling at interstate speeds. It worried me at first but I figured what the he!! it's a good test and I just let it cycle. Nothing weird happened and all was well when I got home and still is...

I'm also using a heavier sanden (709) than the more popular 508 so this rig looks golden!

I had planned on drilling/tapping the front of the block if the first version didn't work but it really is fine without them.

ROLLGUY · #56 07-06-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach4

In your final design are you going with 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 plate for the bracket?

I think 1/4" is just fine. The Sanden takes less horsepower, and runs much smoother than even the best R4. I am sure that with the added lower brace, it will be fine. Looking at Klima's brackets, I believe mine may be stronger. However, not seeing one mounted in the car, it is only speculation.

ROLLGUY · #57 07-09-2012, 08:45 PM

I went today and picked up more steel to fabricate the brackets. I decided to use 5/16" thick plate. I got a piece of 5/16 X 8" plate, 10' long. I also got a stick of 3/4 .120 DOM tubing for the sleeves. I talked to an old friend of mine (have not talked to him in at least 3 years!) that has a fabrication shop. He is going to cut the plates for me with his plasma cutting table. He will need to make a sheet metal pattern for his machine (old school non computerized). After I get one plate made, I will weld another bracket together (more precise than the prototype), and test it. If I find that everything is good, I will consider that the first article and have him cut the rest of the material (will make about 16 pieces). I will then make a fixture from the first article and start welding! I am also considering having all the parts cad plated. They have a minimum charge, so I need to get as pieces made as feasibly possible to keep the cost down.

ROLLGUY · #58 07-10-2012, 03:53 PM

I picked up the parts today from the fabricator. He made a sheet metal pattern for his machine for both pieces from my cardboard pattern. I will drill and weld all the parts, and make sure everything is good.

The next update will be the finished part mounted on the car for testing....Rich

ROLLGUY · #59 07-10-2012, 11:53 PM

I got the pieces welded together, and made the first article. I then made a fixture from it:

The fixture:

The plate in the fixture:

The compressor and idler mounted on the plate:

I will mount the plate on the car, and add the oil cooler hose mount to it. I will also need to add something to the fixture for holding the oil cooler line bracket.
After that, I will test it for a couple weeks while I get the rest of the pieces cut to make at least 10 plates....Rich

mach4 · #60 07-11-2012, 12:56 AM

Looking good!

Can't wait to see the bracket in the car.