W123 vs curb - curb won the battle - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

barry12345 · #16 04-16-2018, 12:21 PM

No option other than safely dealing with that spring. I would chain it so it cannot go anywhere. And take the temper out of the spring with my torches.

In a few areas until I thought it was safe. Any attempt to circumvent this is not worth the risk. They really can kill you. I did notice or it looks like the lower fender to door gap appears to be closed up a little.

Might want to look for a little buckling. Usually the fender will buckle before moving back. Not always I suppose. Most likely the mount for the locating bar may have had any backward movement transmitted.

dinman · #17 04-16-2018, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

No option other than safely dealing with that spring. I would chain it so it cannot go anywhere. And take the temper out of the spring with my torches.

In a few areas until I thought it was safe. Any attempt to circumvent this is not worth the risk. They really can kill you. I did notice or it looks like the lower fender to door gap appears to be closed up a little.

Might want to look for a little buckling. Usually the fender will buckle before moving back. Not always I suppose. Most likely the mount for the locating bar may have had any backward movement transmitted.

Good eye.

My fender has been like that since i got the car. It was in a front end accident at some point, and the previous owner replaced the fender..... the proceeded to spray paint the fender green. He was going to spray paint the whole car green. I sprayed back over the fender in gray primer, but you can see bits of the green.

The fender has always rubbed a little on the passenger door though.

As mentioned before, getting that spring off is what i am the most worried about by far. I don't even like getting under the car at the moment. I can only imagine what would happen if that spring came out with my face 6 inches from it.

I'm only 22, i don't want to die by a w123 spring

Simpler=Better · #18 04-16-2018, 02:00 PM

Chaining the spring and then using whatever means to burn/compress/whatever it out is also my recommendation.

I've yanked a junker spring out with a second car before. Looped a heavy chain through the spring to keep it from flying off, and then hooked a strap to a tow vehicle to pop it out. It was a bit frightening, but worked.

Might mess up some other stuff doing it this way, so use your judgement.

barry12345 · #19 04-16-2018, 04:29 PM

Good for you to realize the risks. Some of us where immortal at 22 yet are still around. Some are not.

If the car drove decently you probably can repair it to the same state. Some used parts can be your financial friend as well. Do not get overly concerned about the money you save. The car will find another area or place to dispose of it in.

Actually not because I am cheap. Yet I am I suppose a times. Although never ever when there is a full eclipse of the moon .

Some new parts are such poor substitutes for the past quality. If they check out well on a wreck I have no issue reusing them. Many of them will still easily outlast many of their new aftermarket replacements of today.

On occasion I have gotten things like primer pumps in boxes labeled bosh. Ordered directly from China with no indication at all of the place of manufacture. On the box or item. They can make good parts in China but most of the middlemen only want cheap. They could be knockoffs but my gut feeling is they are what we get no matter where ordered from.

dinman · #20 04-16-2018, 06:24 PM

I think im going to chain/strap the hell out of the spring and try to get it out using... brute force.

The car did NOT drive well at all. I was actually sore the next day from fighting the wheel to keep it straight. I had the wheel almost locked all the way left just for the car to to track straight. Even then it was trying to pull around on the road.

ROLLGUY · #21 04-16-2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinman

I think im going to chain/strap the hell out of the spring and try to get it out using... brute force.

The car did NOT drive well at all. I was actually sore the next day from fighting the wheel to keep it straight. I had the wheel almost locked all the way left just for the car to to track straight. Even then it was trying to pull around on the road.

If you don't release some pressure from the spring before trying to remove it with "brute force", it may not go well with you. There is still a LOT of tension on the spring, and trying to remove it without relieving that tension first could be disastrous. Just putting chains/straps/cable or whatever with the spring like it is will be dangerous enough. If you do end up living after hooking up the cable/strap/chain etc, use a cutoff wheel or grinder if you don't have a torch. The BEST way would be to heat up the coils in a few places, and the spring will release the pressure slowly. You don't want it to explode in your face if you try the "brute force" with the tension not released first. Of course you could throw caution to the wind and do it cave man style (or red-neck) by hooking a 20' chain/cable to the tow hitch of your 4X4 truck and getting a running start in 4-low

dinman · #22 04-16-2018, 07:33 PM

Just had a thought.

Since the spring is barely sitting on the lower plate, could i maybe use the klann style compressor and just compress the part of the spring that is still straight? But still chain it off to be safe. I know i need to snag 7-8 coils in order to get it out normally, but maybe i can just compress 6 (which looks possible in my situation) and then it may come out, due to the control arm and spring plate being yanked down?

ROLLGUY · #23 04-16-2018, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinman

Just had a thought.

Since the spring is barely sitting on the lower plate, could i maybe use the klann style compressor and just compress the part of the spring that is still straight? But still chain it off to be safe. I know i need to snag 7-8 coils in order to get it out normally, but maybe i can just compress 6 (which looks possible in my situation) and then it may come out, due to the control arm and spring plate being yanked down?

With the spring bent like that, you will have a hard time getting the compressor to work. Just working around it looking like that would give me the creeps. You could try it, but my bet is that it won't work.

barry12345 · #24 04-16-2018, 10:16 PM

I tend to calculate risk. Trying to estimate the risk. Whenever something exceeds my comfort zone. I really change the approach.

To me it is not worth playing around with a spring compressor in your particular situation. For example even working at chaining the coils so total expansion cannot occur. You almost risk disturbing it in the process.

Not implying it cannot be done. It just is not the better choice. The present situation is like playing with a loaded gun in some ways. It is a lot cheaper overall to have someone with a set of torches drop by than have something go wrong. Still have to chain the spring first though.

When I asked how the car drove earlier because you stated it had been in a previous accident. I meant before this accident. Did the car pull either way for example?

Even at 75 years old now with all the years of experience under my belt. The wife just asked me when I would be setting up the scaffolding again. I told her in about a couple of weeks I think. As my last operation is healing up well now at last.

I even put up a safety railing as it only takes about ten minutes. If that. I learnt from observation that unexpected things can happen years ago. The results of them are far greater in consequence than losing ten minutes. Tie the scaffolding to the structure when 20 feet or greater up as well. That takes perhaps five minutes.

My point is young people are in various forms of do it yourself accidents every day. They thought they could pull something off but it just did not go as planned.

I like people and if I were within a hundred miles of you. I would offer to load a set of tanks in the trunk and drive down. Gratis.

About six months ago I saw a young fellow was using tools in a dangerous way. So since I had something automotive to do. Asked him if he wanted to give me a hand. I asked him to grab a three pound hammer and give the tire a swat to separate the rim from the hub after he had removed the wheel bolts.

Well up comes his foot and kicks the tire. The wheel stays in place but he is propelled backwards into my cars fender. Leaving a nice size dent. It gets worse as various things I suggest like the tools he uses instead of what I suggest are sooner or later going to get him hurt. Or the tools damaged.

I may as well describe a potential danger I see in your situation. If you get the right coil compressor in that spring. It will try to straighten the severe arc the spring is in as you start to compress the portion of it you capture with the compressor. This could enable the lower edge of that spring to slip out of the tilted base cup.
Even getting the spring compressor in could be risky. That bottom cup remains under heavy pressure and it could still be slightly deforming more with each day. That spring could still launch all by itself with time.

You just have to have respect for large amounts of stored energy that can suddenly be totally released.

dinman · #25 04-16-2018, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

With the spring bent like that, you will have a hard time getting the compressor to work. Just working around it looking like that would give me the creeps. You could try it, but my bet is that it won't work.

Yeah, im trying to weigh my options here

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

I tend to calculate risk. Trying to estimate the risk. Whenever something exceeds my comfort zone. I really change the approach.

To me it is not worth playing around with a spring compressor in your particular situation. For example even working at chaining the coils so total expansion cannot occur. You almost risk disturbing it in the process.

Not implying it cannot be done. It just is not the better choice. The present situation is like playing with a loaded gun in some ways. It is a lot cheaper overall to have someone with a set of torches drop by than have something go wrong. Still have to chain the spring first though.

When I asked how the car drove earlier because you stated it had been in a previous accident. I meant before this accident. Did the car pull either way for example?

Even at 75 years old now with all the years of experience under my belt. The wife just asked me when I would be setting up the scaffolding again. I told her in about a couple of weeks I think. As my last operation is healing up well now at last.

I even put up a safety railing as it only takes about ten minutes. If that. I learnt from observation that unexpected things can happen years ago. The results of them are far greater in consequence than losing ten minutes. Tie the scaffolding to the structure when 20 feet or greater up as well. That takes perhaps five minutes.

My point is young people are in various forms of do it yourself accidents every day. They thought they could pull something off but it just did not go as planned.

I like people and if I were within a hundred miles of you. I would offer to load a set of tanks in the trunk and drive down. Gratis.

About six months ago I saw a young fellow was using tools in a dangerous way. So since I had something automotive to do. Asked him if he wanted to give me a hand. I asked him to grab a three pound hammer and give the tire a swat to separate the rim from the hub after he had removed the wheel bolts.

Well up comes his foot and kicks the tire. The wheel stays in place but he is propelled backwards into my cars fender. Leaving a nice size dent. It gets worse as various things I suggest like the tools he uses instead of what I suggest are sooner or later going to get him hurt. Or the tools damaged.

I may as well describe a potential danger I see in your situation. If you get the right coil compressor in that spring. It will try to straighten the severe arc the spring is in as you start to compress the portion of it you capture with the compressor. This could enable the lower edge of that spring to slip out of the tilted base cup.
Even getting the spring compressor in could be risky. That bottom cup remains under heavy pressure and it could still be slightly deforming more with each day. That spring could still launch all by itself with time.

You just have to have respect for large amounts of stored energy that can suddenly be totally released.

Much appreciated sir.

Car was flawless before this. I could let the wheel go at 90+mph and it would track straight. No vibrations or anything.

Of the work i've done on all of my vehicles, this scares me the most. For obvious reasons.

Removing the un-damaged spring with the correct tool- easy. Potentially dangerous, but still easy as far as i can tell.

This is a different ball game.

To all who are interested- i got some more detailed pictures of the damage.

I believe i avoided any structural damage. The LCA looks like it is off center- but looks like the mounting tabs are OK when compared to the other side.

On to the pics. Some are sort of confusing.

Disregard how filthy my car is. I tend to go off-roading in it occasionally

Passenger side (damaged) back side of guide rod mount. Looks OK to me

Driver's side guide rod mount plate

What do you guys think?

My end goal here is to not only get the car back on the road- but raise the front end of the car a little. It sags too much in the front for me at the moment. I will be putting larger tires on it as well.

I think we all came to this conclusion in a separate thread- that i should install new, factory spec springs, the 4 nub spring pads (which i have sitting right here next to me) and either Bilstein HD's or comforts

BillGrissom · #26 04-16-2018, 11:32 PM

My 1984 300D had been repaired when I bought it. The PO stated it had been stolen and crashed into a curb. The K-frame had popped loose from the frame rails and a shop had welded it back. So poorly that it later detached at the top on the R side. I pulled it back, welded better, and added an L-plate on top, which made it better than the minimal spot welds the factory used. As bought, the L side LCA pivot bracket had cracked, moving the LCA outward (giving toe-out on wheel). I welded that back and added a strap across the cracked area. No problems in years of driving since.

Your damage looks fairly minor. I doubt the LCA bent, since it is thick and forged. The LCA pivot bracket would twist first, but even that doesn't appear to have happened, since the bushing rubber allowed for that motion. All you need is to replace the guide rod and its mount. The mounts are cheap and available. Check here (P-P) for guide rod, otherwise junkyard. You need new LCA bushings. Many here use the PN for 300SD since more robust.

The spring is mostly uncompressed. Wrap a chain thru it and the LCA to keep it from jumping out at you. Put a jack under the spindle, remove shock and lower the LCA as much as you can. You could probably pry the spring out then, but outside spring compressors are cheap at HF. There is a special spring compressor which fits inside the spring, but need to search for one that fits thru the hole at the top (several posts). I have managed with outside ones. Just keep a chain thru it and take up slack as you compress it. Should be fairly easy to beat the spring perch back w/ a sledge hammer or press, or get another at the junkyard.

dinman · #27 04-17-2018, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

My 1984 300D had been repaired when I bought it. The PO stated it had been stolen and crashed into a curb. The K-frame had popped loose from the frame rails and a shop had welded it back. So poorly that it later detached at the top on the R side. I pulled it back, welded better, and added an L-plate on top, which made it better than the minimal spot welds the factory used. As bought, the L side LCA pivot bracket had cracked, moving the LCA outward (giving toe-out on wheel). I welded that back and added a strap across the cracked area. No problems in years of driving since.

Your damage looks fairly minor. I doubt the LCA bent, since it is thick and forged. The LCA pivot bracket would twist first, but even that doesn't appear to have happened, since the bushing rubber allowed for that motion. All you need is to replace the guide rod and its mount. The mounts are cheap and available. Check here (P-P) for guide rod, otherwise junkyard. You need new LCA bushings. Many here use the PN for 300SD since more robust.

The spring is mostly uncompressed. Wrap a chain thru it and the LCA to keep it from jumping out at you. Put a jack under the spindle, remove shock and lower the LCA as much as you can. You could probably pry the spring out then, but outside spring compressors are cheap at HF. There is a special spring compressor which fits inside the spring, but need to search for one that fits thru the hole at the top (several posts). I have managed with outside ones. Just keep a chain thru it and take up slack as you compress it. Should be fairly easy to beat the spring perch back w/ a sledge hammer or press, or get another at the junkyard.

Wow OK. That gives me some faith with mine.

Im going to get a whole LCA from the junkyard.

Here is a video of the damage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nkDHnNtA7U&list=UU_6z8EvAXtybcwUm7GOW9Kg

ROLLGUY · #28 04-17-2018, 02:24 PM

The problem I see with using a chain through the coils, is that you may be able to get the chain between the coils with it bent like that, but once the spring comes out, the chain is there to stay. Also, I would not trust anything smaller than 5/16 chain, and I doubt that is small enough to get between the coils. It has been said many times, and I will say it again. By far the safest way to remove that spring is with a torch. The spring will be replaced anyway, so it is best to employ the safest method for removal.

Junkman · #29 04-17-2018, 10:56 PM

I've had a 126 spring in a compressor and didn't like the feeling. There is a LOT of power stored in it. I'm also not sure how safe a torch would be for those that haven't used a torch to the point of competency.

I think supporting the steering knuckle so that it doesn't drop is first. Then, chain the spring. You do need to relieve tension. A compressor on part of the spring would help. Lube the screw on the compressor. That is mandatory. I don't remember what it takes to drop the knuckle down to relieve more of the pressure. You want to rig something between you and the spring that will also allow you to work.

Go slow.

Les Izmore · #30 04-17-2018, 11:56 PM

If you took out the jack stand and set the knuckle on the ground would it straighten the spring up a bit so you get get the compressor on better? Maybe with a come-along on the spindle or the LCA, pulling it forward so the spring perch could come closer to normal?