W123 vs curb - curb won the battle - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

barry12345 · #1 04-16-2018, 12:21 PM

No option other than safely dealing with that spring. I would chain it so it cannot go anywhere. And take the temper out of the spring with my torches.

In a few areas until I thought it was safe. Any attempt to circumvent this is not worth the risk. They really can kill you. I did notice or it looks like the lower fender to door gap appears to be closed up a little.

Might want to look for a little buckling. Usually the fender will buckle before moving back. Not always I suppose. Most likely the mount for the locating bar may have had any backward movement transmitted.

dinman · #2 04-16-2018, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

No option other than safely dealing with that spring. I would chain it so it cannot go anywhere. And take the temper out of the spring with my torches.

In a few areas until I thought it was safe. Any attempt to circumvent this is not worth the risk. They really can kill you. I did notice or it looks like the lower fender to door gap appears to be closed up a little.

Might want to look for a little buckling. Usually the fender will buckle before moving back. Not always I suppose. Most likely the mount for the locating bar may have had any backward movement transmitted.

Good eye.

My fender has been like that since i got the car. It was in a front end accident at some point, and the previous owner replaced the fender..... the proceeded to spray paint the fender green. He was going to spray paint the whole car green. I sprayed back over the fender in gray primer, but you can see bits of the green.

The fender has always rubbed a little on the passenger door though.

As mentioned before, getting that spring off is what i am the most worried about by far. I don't even like getting under the car at the moment. I can only imagine what would happen if that spring came out with my face 6 inches from it.

I'm only 22, i don't want to die by a w123 spring

Simpler=Better · #3 04-16-2018, 02:00 PM

Chaining the spring and then using whatever means to burn/compress/whatever it out is also my recommendation.

I've yanked a junker spring out with a second car before. Looped a heavy chain through the spring to keep it from flying off, and then hooked a strap to a tow vehicle to pop it out. It was a bit frightening, but worked.

Might mess up some other stuff doing it this way, so use your judgement.

barry12345 · #4 04-16-2018, 04:29 PM

Good for you to realize the risks. Some of us where immortal at 22 yet are still around. Some are not.

If the car drove decently you probably can repair it to the same state. Some used parts can be your financial friend as well. Do not get overly concerned about the money you save. The car will find another area or place to dispose of it in.

Actually not because I am cheap. Yet I am I suppose a times. Although never ever when there is a full eclipse of the moon .

Some new parts are such poor substitutes for the past quality. If they check out well on a wreck I have no issue reusing them. Many of them will still easily outlast many of their new aftermarket replacements of today.

On occasion I have gotten things like primer pumps in boxes labeled bosh. Ordered directly from China with no indication at all of the place of manufacture. On the box or item. They can make good parts in China but most of the middlemen only want cheap. They could be knockoffs but my gut feeling is they are what we get no matter where ordered from.

dinman · #5 04-16-2018, 06:24 PM

I think im going to chain/strap the hell out of the spring and try to get it out using... brute force.

The car did NOT drive well at all. I was actually sore the next day from fighting the wheel to keep it straight. I had the wheel almost locked all the way left just for the car to to track straight. Even then it was trying to pull around on the road.

ROLLGUY · #6 04-16-2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinman

I think im going to chain/strap the hell out of the spring and try to get it out using... brute force.

The car did NOT drive well at all. I was actually sore the next day from fighting the wheel to keep it straight. I had the wheel almost locked all the way left just for the car to to track straight. Even then it was trying to pull around on the road.

If you don't release some pressure from the spring before trying to remove it with "brute force", it may not go well with you. There is still a LOT of tension on the spring, and trying to remove it without relieving that tension first could be disastrous. Just putting chains/straps/cable or whatever with the spring like it is will be dangerous enough. If you do end up living after hooking up the cable/strap/chain etc, use a cutoff wheel or grinder if you don't have a torch. The BEST way would be to heat up the coils in a few places, and the spring will release the pressure slowly. You don't want it to explode in your face if you try the "brute force" with the tension not released first. Of course you could throw caution to the wind and do it cave man style (or red-neck) by hooking a 20' chain/cable to the tow hitch of your 4X4 truck and getting a running start in 4-low

dinman · #7 04-16-2018, 07:33 PM

Just had a thought.

Since the spring is barely sitting on the lower plate, could i maybe use the klann style compressor and just compress the part of the spring that is still straight? But still chain it off to be safe. I know i need to snag 7-8 coils in order to get it out normally, but maybe i can just compress 6 (which looks possible in my situation) and then it may come out, due to the control arm and spring plate being yanked down?

BillGrissom · #8 04-16-2018, 11:32 PM

My 1984 300D had been repaired when I bought it. The PO stated it had been stolen and crashed into a curb. The K-frame had popped loose from the frame rails and a shop had welded it back. So poorly that it later detached at the top on the R side. I pulled it back, welded better, and added an L-plate on top, which made it better than the minimal spot welds the factory used. As bought, the L side LCA pivot bracket had cracked, moving the LCA outward (giving toe-out on wheel). I welded that back and added a strap across the cracked area. No problems in years of driving since.

Your damage looks fairly minor. I doubt the LCA bent, since it is thick and forged. The LCA pivot bracket would twist first, but even that doesn't appear to have happened, since the bushing rubber allowed for that motion. All you need is to replace the guide rod and its mount. The mounts are cheap and available. Check here (P-P) for guide rod, otherwise junkyard. You need new LCA bushings. Many here use the PN for 300SD since more robust.

The spring is mostly uncompressed. Wrap a chain thru it and the LCA to keep it from jumping out at you. Put a jack under the spindle, remove shock and lower the LCA as much as you can. You could probably pry the spring out then, but outside spring compressors are cheap at HF. There is a special spring compressor which fits inside the spring, but need to search for one that fits thru the hole at the top (several posts). I have managed with outside ones. Just keep a chain thru it and take up slack as you compress it. Should be fairly easy to beat the spring perch back w/ a sledge hammer or press, or get another at the junkyard.

dinman · #9 04-17-2018, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

My 1984 300D had been repaired when I bought it. The PO stated it had been stolen and crashed into a curb. The K-frame had popped loose from the frame rails and a shop had welded it back. So poorly that it later detached at the top on the R side. I pulled it back, welded better, and added an L-plate on top, which made it better than the minimal spot welds the factory used. As bought, the L side LCA pivot bracket had cracked, moving the LCA outward (giving toe-out on wheel). I welded that back and added a strap across the cracked area. No problems in years of driving since.

Your damage looks fairly minor. I doubt the LCA bent, since it is thick and forged. The LCA pivot bracket would twist first, but even that doesn't appear to have happened, since the bushing rubber allowed for that motion. All you need is to replace the guide rod and its mount. The mounts are cheap and available. Check here (P-P) for guide rod, otherwise junkyard. You need new LCA bushings. Many here use the PN for 300SD since more robust.

The spring is mostly uncompressed. Wrap a chain thru it and the LCA to keep it from jumping out at you. Put a jack under the spindle, remove shock and lower the LCA as much as you can. You could probably pry the spring out then, but outside spring compressors are cheap at HF. There is a special spring compressor which fits inside the spring, but need to search for one that fits thru the hole at the top (several posts). I have managed with outside ones. Just keep a chain thru it and take up slack as you compress it. Should be fairly easy to beat the spring perch back w/ a sledge hammer or press, or get another at the junkyard.

Wow OK. That gives me some faith with mine.

Im going to get a whole LCA from the junkyard.

Here is a video of the damage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nkDHnNtA7U&list=UU_6z8EvAXtybcwUm7GOW9Kg

ROLLGUY · #10 04-17-2018, 02:24 PM

The problem I see with using a chain through the coils, is that you may be able to get the chain between the coils with it bent like that, but once the spring comes out, the chain is there to stay. Also, I would not trust anything smaller than 5/16 chain, and I doubt that is small enough to get between the coils. It has been said many times, and I will say it again. By far the safest way to remove that spring is with a torch. The spring will be replaced anyway, so it is best to employ the safest method for removal.

Junkman · #11 04-17-2018, 10:56 PM

I've had a 126 spring in a compressor and didn't like the feeling. There is a LOT of power stored in it. I'm also not sure how safe a torch would be for those that haven't used a torch to the point of competency.

I think supporting the steering knuckle so that it doesn't drop is first. Then, chain the spring. You do need to relieve tension. A compressor on part of the spring would help. Lube the screw on the compressor. That is mandatory. I don't remember what it takes to drop the knuckle down to relieve more of the pressure. You want to rig something between you and the spring that will also allow you to work.

Go slow.

Les Izmore · #12 04-17-2018, 11:56 PM

If you took out the jack stand and set the knuckle on the ground would it straighten the spring up a bit so you get get the compressor on better? Maybe with a come-along on the spindle or the LCA, pulling it forward so the spring perch could come closer to normal?

BillGrissom · #13 04-18-2018, 12:34 AM

Don't limit yourself to opinions here. Many older U.S. cars use similar coil springs and people deal with them every day. I am sure there are many youtube's. I have seen coil springs swapped on TV car shows. I recall one where the spring looked like yours with the LCA lowered, and they just pry-barred it out and watched it roll across the room. They then forced a new spring in by hand. But, I would be more careful.

One thing to watch is don't tighten the pivot bolt until the weight is on the wheel so that the LCA is at its normal resting position. That will clamp the rubber bushing when in the neutral position. If you tighten it with the LCA hanging down, the rubber can shear as the LCA rotates upward. By the same token, loosen the pivot bolt to relax the bushing, and your LCA may drop down further, but put a chain thru the spring first. Look for other things that may be stopping the LCA from dropping down (shock?). If you can work the spring in by hand later, you won't even need a spring compressor since raising the LCA will do that.

ROLLGUY · #14 04-18-2018, 09:21 PM

It is my experience that the LCA can't be lowered enough to allow the spring to be installed (or removed) at full uncompressed length. If you could lower the LCA as much as possible, and at some point the spring will shoot out like a shotgun blast. The lower spring pad gets angled as the spring extends. At some point the spring will slide off the lower spring pad with enough force left in it to KILL YOU. Heating up the spring is the safest way to get it out (yes I have said this before, but it is very important). Just looking at it with the spring pad at that angle scares me, and I am many miles away!

barry12345 · #15 04-18-2018, 11:31 PM

You posted really great pictures incidentally.

Also just in case you did not think of it. The inner curved portion of the spring is under a lot more compression than the outer curve of the coil. Actually if the radius of the curve is severe enough the outer coils could be in actual tension.

In a relative fashion that situation is present now. So you would chain the lower part of the spring to the perch. Heat the coils one at a time as needed on the more compressed inside of the coil and the coil will do two things. Start losing the tension and tend to straighten up.

Heating the coils on the outside of the coils curve could further increase the curvature. So besides a chain on the coils. A chain so the lower end of the spring cannot exit the lower pocket is also something I would do. Because as the spring tries to straighten up it may otherwise try to leave the lower pocket. Or at least the tendency to do it would increase.

The front springs on most older Mercedes historically have been longer than other brands of cars. This allows more vertical movement in the suspension than others have.

Typically or untypically the shocks are also even more important than in many cars as a result. If the cars used to bottom out on their front suspension in the old fintail days. Usually the shocks were shot. I have never had a 123 type with really bad shocks. Still the suspension design is similar enough it might exhibit the same tendency.

I did not even want to post any more on this thread. At the same time I kept thinking the guy is 22 and could be my grandson. I cannot think of a more dangerous area or situation of a car to work on.

What could happen if he took a chance? Or misjudged the situation? Was he aware of the tension/ compression component existing?

My brother in law was by the other day and I mentioned what a site member was dealing with. He still works on a multitude of cars. He mentioned he lost a less dangerous spring years ago. It hit the concrete floor and rebounded. Right out through the roof of the building.

The only way you will not get hurt in life is by basically doing nothing. Doing many things over the years it is almost unavoidable. The more you do the greater the chances. I am not accident prone but still have gotten hurt a couple of times. Beyond the minor scratches, cuts, bruises and sprains.