Believe it or not, "Duty, honor, country" still does have SOME significance to those who serve, despite Lance's questioning of their sanity.

I thought about joining the Marines or Coast Guard, maybe Navy for a bit, but decided to pursue other areas. I don't think I'd work well in a very structured environment. I kinda of regret not trying to get into the officer core now.

What does this have to do with this topic?

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

You're making statements on a topic that you know nothing about.

Ahh yes the old argument. How do I know nothing about it? Just because I have not been in the military doesn't mean I don't know about it. How many times have you been to Iraq? Whats your military service history?

So you can only discuss on topics you have experianced in person? Well since I have never run for office, politics is out. Have you run for office?

So who in this thread has served in the military? If you havn't I have to delete your post.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Irrelevant.

Would you suggest that someone who did not play in the NFL could not cover NFL games?

Would you suggest that someone who never lived under Communism could not speak on the relative merits or demerits of that system?

Would you suggest that because I did not live in Britain during WWII, I cannot become something of an armchair expert on Churchill?

I'm way too old for Iraq, but I did get to Viet Nam. I served, other than basic training, my entire tour in C Battery, 7th Battalion, 15th Artillery. You can visit the 15th's excellent website at http://www.landscaper.net.
When it comes to declaring that " I would do my duty" or "There are many things worse than serving in Iraq" you better believe you need to back up those statements with some personal experience.

Yes, I would suggest exactly that. The best commentators on the NFL actually participated in the game.
Did Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rove, ever experience war?

Sure, go ahead by all means, but it has no relevance here. India is full of problems, no denying that. It doesn't concern me in any way, I am a US citizen so what goes on here affects me more than what happens in India. India's problems are being dealt by them and with all problems, it manages to rise as the fourth largest economy with second highest number of billionaires after US including one of them who is at the top of the list and whose wealth is more than combined number of billionaires from China. Or the fact that there are more entrepreneurs coming up daily than China. Sure there are problems, but then the whole world is full of problems and I can bring on a pile of them. Would this tit for tat action solve US's problems, don't think so.

__________________
99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

So Howard Cosell was a pretty lousy NFL and boxing commentator, wasn't he?

Care to explain the terrorist acts by all the peaceloving Indian Hindus?

And Dubya knows how to wage war?

Same reason Israel kills Palestinian women and kids under the guise of anti-terrorism and when the world protests, the Holocaust flag is waved strongly in their face. Israel supports isolation and discrimination based on race. It hates and denies rights to all races but the Jews. As the great Holy Book Talmud says, a Gentile's life is worth the value of cattle so I can see where this kind of attitude is coming from. As for Hindus supporting institutionalized discrimination, its the same Hindus that have chalked out 33% reservation for minorities and backward classes, any reservation on the same lines for the Gentiles in Israel?. Lest we forget the last president of India was a Muslim from a poor family. Don't see any Arab ever coming to that position in Israel.

Hindus were never peace loving or anti war, most Hindu kings waged plenty of war among themselves. Bloodshed was considered as an exercise in valor.

Priming the pump is your job, after all thats how you bleed USA daily for your cause and land.

__________________
99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

WTF does that have to do with this topic?

I don’t want to hear any crap about “if you haven’t served….”. If you did. Great. Thanks. Hats off to you. But keep the “…you wouldn’t understand.” crap to yourself.

How about we drop the political and personal attack Bravo/Sierra and take a look into why the rate may be up.

I don’t think it has a whole lot to do with politics and who’s in charge.

Does anyone have any data on the age and rank range of the increasing number of deserters? I’d like to see it. I’d also bet it’s (as usual) the lower ranked, young grunts.

Think about this:

(And I’m not posting any personal stand on this war. Just some observations. Feel free to correct me, if I’m wrong.)

With most wars in the past – It was easy to tell who the enemy was. Not so at all with this war. Sure, the guys shooting at them are the enemy. But these kids are dealing with people who are their friend one day, and trying to kill them the next. Not to mention, who are their allies? We’ve all heard about the Iraqi police force corruption and mistrust over there. Not to mention, Ala has most of their Iraqi “friends” not liking them at all. They just don’t show it until they have an RPG to fire at them.

In most wars in the past - The soldiers pretty much knew where the front line was. Not so in this war. They walk down a street for weeks. Past the same parked cars. But on the next day, one of the cars blows up and kills their two best friends. The guys that always had their back, and helped them keep their sanity in all the confusion that this war brings to the soldier.

In most wars in the past – The media wasn’t near as close as they are in this war. As a soldier, they can’t step an inch out of line without someone making it public. On top of that, the higher ranking staff that knows what’s going on isn’t being made the scapegoat. The kids are.

With most wars in the past - It was easier for the soldier to see how an end could be reached. Not so easy with this war. That’s got to suck. Half the time they probably aren’t sure who’s winning or who’s going to figure out how to tell who’s won.

Keep in mind too, that most of these deserters are probably just kids. 18 to 20 year olds that, though well trained and equipped to fight and make us all proud (Keep the “became a MAN in the USMC”, etc crap to yourself….the guys/gals are still just out of HS), they are facing some things they perhaps only thought they could handle being faced with.

Something none of us truly know about unless we’ve actually been there.

It seems to me this war has given plenty of “kids” (I don’t really want to say “reasons”, but…) reasons to consider desertion.

I know that I will be told here that I don’t know what I’m talking about. But I will say that unless you’ve served in this war on the streets of Iraq, then neither do you.
But I’m damn sure I’ve seen, read, heard, and conversed enough about it to have some understanding as to what these kids are going through, and can see, and understand, how their young minds might have them “running away” from the horrors of this war.

I’m not condoning desertion. Just making a statement that there is a lot going on over there that none of us as ex-soldiers or armchair generals are probably taking into consideration when we post our views on the issue.

__________________
1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Exactly my thought, please ask rick g and Botnst, its their version of censorship by indulging in a tit for tat. Botnst is on a mission to sabotage and divert every thread that I post here.

__________________
99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT