HELP - w210 e300td Injector pump bad? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dylancarter · #1 07-02-2007, 01:36 PM

I'll try and keep this short. My 1999 e300td had what I thought was an oil leak. I took it to a local ( So Cal ) shop. They said it was not an oil leak, but the injector pump leaking diesel. Small o-ring ( but lots of labor) to fix. I had them go ahead and do it. When they put the car back together it started to smoke really bad. The mechanic is a bright guy, but not a diesel specialist. He says the problem is internal to the pump and that it generating too much pressure. That pressure was leaking out of the bad o-ring, but now has no place to go except out the injectors. As we know too much fuel = spy hunter style smoke screen.

No the questions. Does his diagnosis sound right? What is my best coarse of action now? I read a bunch of threads about o-rings and crush washers, but that is for leaks. He says he has set the timing of the injector pump, but swears we need to have the injector pump rebuilt. Problem is he does not know where to have it rebuilt. I am really concerned that we are heading down the wrong path, and it's an expensive path!

If any one can give me ANY leads, tips, hints, anything - I would REALLY appreciate it. The car is drivable, and I have considered taking it to the stealer to get their diagnosis. Does any one know any GREAT diesel mechanics in the Venice / Culver City / Santa Monica area?

Please help...please please please.

Thanks - Dylan

TMAllison · #2 07-02-2007, 02:10 PM

This is a simple job but can be very easily screwed up if someone doenst know what they are doing.

Is it running bad or nailing now? Was it before?

Hopefully your mech didnt disturb, or let the valve beneath the holder fall over, when he lifted the holder off to replace the crush washer or what he is telling you may now be correct.

There is a fellow in the Bay Area (Pfister?) who rebuilds pumps. Search Blodgit's name for the info. A recent post he started ~2 months ago.

scott19_68 · #3 07-02-2007, 02:13 PM

I'm guessing that he changed the delivery valve O-rings as a leak on most of the O-rings on the fuel delivery side make air leak in - not fuel leaking out. It is possible it could have been the shut-off valve O-ring, but that would/should have taken less than 30 minutes to replace.

I think most of us '606'ers on this board have done the delivery valve seals when the ULSD switchover happened. It does require a very clean working environment since one little speck of dirt can lodge in an injector and ruin your nice spray pattern.

I am kind of worried that you mention that he is "not a diesel specialist" but set the timing on your IP. Your IP has an electronic timing adjustment to control the initial advancement - just a quick computer configuration setting and that's it. I'd ask to see his 'timing adjustment' method.

Parrot of Doom · #4 07-02-2007, 02:32 PM

I'm puzzled as to how a pump can generate too much pressure.

I'm sure Mercedes would love to know how your mechanic improved their pump in this way, perhaps he could go and work for their design team.

I'd take it to an MB specialist and have it looked at. He shouldn't have touched the timing.

dylancarter · #5 07-02-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott19_68

I'm guessing that he changed the delivery valve O-rings as a leak on most of the O-rings on the fuel delivery side make air leak in - not fuel leaking out. It is possible it could have been the shut-off valve O-ring, but that would/should have taken less than 30 minutes to replace.

I think most of us '606'ers on this board have done the delivery valve seals when the ULSD switchover happened. It does require a very clean working environment since one little speck of dirt can lodge in an injector and ruin your nice spray pattern.

I am kind of worried that you mention that he is "not a diesel specialist" but set the timing on your IP. Your IP has an electronic timing adjustment to control the initial advancement - just a quick computer configuration setting and that's it. I'd ask to see his 'timing adjustment' method.

Thanks for the info - Let me see if I can be more clear. I had the entire shut off valve replaced, and all clear plastic fuel lines just a few months ago. That solved that leak ( which was not drips, but puddles) and my air bubble problem. This leak was a single o-ring about the size of a silver dollar and required the intake manifold to be removed. Not sure what else he had done. When he put it back together there was lots of smoke, so he then tried to adjust the the timing. His theory is that the pump is making too much pressure and that is creating the smoke. Sounds fishy to me. That is why I posted this. Sounds like I am going to the dealer this week

BioPOWER · #6 07-02-2007, 03:21 PM

If he "adjusted" the IP timing, he most likely screwed it up...as mentioned above, the W210 E300 has an electronically adjusted IP. Your IP now injects either too early or too late, causing incomplete combustion and the production of the smoke you see.

Get it looked at right away, because if it's injecting too early you could be seeing some detonation. The silver dollar sized O-ring was probably the shutoff valve O-ring. If you're cabable of removing the intake (~20 min once you've done it, hardest part is putting it back on), you should be able to replace the O-ring yourself.

TMAllison · #7 07-02-2007, 03:35 PM

Your post states it was the IP (a small o-ring) that was leaking. If that was at the top of the IP (flat milled section with 6 valves) that would be your delivery valve seals that were repalced.

That being the case, hopefully your problem is a simple matter of the valve holder being torqued wrong and not the valve itself having been filddled with. If the valve was messed with its going to have to be flow tested and recalibrated on a bench.

Pending whom you ask the torque is either 30nm, 30nm, 35nm; or 35nm one time only.
********************
*edit* You aslo stated it was running bad (smoking) and that was why he attempted to adjust the IP timing.

I think you need to back up and tell us what was replaced to begin with.....

was it one of the 6 valves on top? http://detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=210025&M=606%2E962&GA=722%2E608&CT=M&cat=19T&SID=07&SGR=045&SGN=01

dylancarter · #8 07-02-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioPOWER

If he "adjusted" the IP timing, he most likely screwed it up...as mentioned above, the W210 E300 has an electronically adjusted IP. Your IP now injects either too early or too late, causing incomplete combustion and the production of the smoke you see.

Get it looked at right away, because if it's injecting too early you could be seeing some detonation. The silver dollar sized O-ring was probably the shutoff valve O-ring. If you're cabable of removing the intake (~20 min once you've done it, hardest part is putting it back on), you should be able to replace the O-ring yourself.

I have only driven it for 15 min like this. It clanks like bat outta hell at idle. I am going to the stealer asap. Does any one have a diagram of this? I would really like to know where things go better. Like I said the entire cut off was replaced ( one would assume that includes this o-ring).

dylancarter · #9 07-02-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMAllison

Your post states it was the IP (a small o-ring) that was leaking. If that was at the top of the IP (flat milled section with 6 valves) that would be your delivery valve seals that were repalced.

That being the case, hopefully your problem is a simple matter of the valve holder being torqued wrong and not the valve itself having been filddled with. If the valve was messed with its going to have to be flow tested and recalibrated on a bench.

Pending whom you ask the torque is either 30nm, 30nm, 35nm; or 35nm one time only.

Was not there when he pulled off the Intake so I did not see the top of the IP . I do not "think" we messed with the valves at all. Like I said, he showed me 1 largish o-ring. It was like $4. The bad one had a big split in it. He replaced that 1 o-ring. Put things back together and when he started it the car smoked like crazy.

TMAllison · #10 07-02-2007, 03:46 PM

I edited post #7. read it again and follow the link.

The shut off vavle oring and DV orings are 12.5mmID. About the size of a nickle.

dylancarter · #11 07-02-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMAllison

Your post states it was the IP (a small o-ring) that was leaking. If that was at the top of the IP (flat milled section with 6 valves) that would be your delivery valve seals that were repalced.

That being the case, hopefully your problem is a simple matter of the valve holder being torqued wrong and not the valve itself having been filddled with. If the valve was messed with its going to have to be flow tested and recalibrated on a bench.

Pending whom you ask the torque is either 30nm, 30nm, 35nm; or 35nm one time only.
********************
*edit* You aslo stated it was running bad (smoking) and that was why he attempted to adjust the IP timing.

I think you need to back up and tell us what was replaced to begin with.....

was it one of the 6 valves on top? http://detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=210025&M=606%2E962&GA=722%2E608&CT=M&cat=19T&SID=07&SGR=045&SGN=01

I need to talk to the mechanic to make sure - but I DO NOT THINK IT WAS ONE OF THE VALVES. Best I can tell it was the injection pump seal - between the pump and crank case. This would make sense as it was a single largish o-ring and the price was about $2-4 bucks. something like this... http://catalog.worldpac.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&year=1999&make=MB&model=E-300DT-001&category=D2∂=Injection+Pump+Seal

scott19_68 · #12 07-02-2007, 04:11 PM

Ask your mechanic if he had to temporarily remove the injector lines or not. This would provide some insight to those users on this board as to the possibility for a contamination inside the injector nozzle. Also - ask for more information as to which O-ring was replaced. I cannot think of any large O-ring except for maybe the one under the pre-filter but that should only take about 10 minutes to replace.

dylancarter · #13 07-02-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott19_68

Ask your mechanic if he had to temporarily remove the injector lines or not. This would provide some insight to those users on this board as to the possibility for a contamination inside the injector nozzle. Also - ask for more information as to which O-ring was replaced. I cannot think of any large O-ring except for maybe the one under the pre-filter but that should only take about 10 minutes to replace.

Yes - I will get more info today. I am pretty sure he did not remove anything that would require "a special tool", like the HP lines. He is an Audi mechanic, and we use for our A6. Since this was going to be "just an oil leak" we figured he could do it no problem. He did say if he had to remove the IP from the car he would need to get a special tool, so this make me think he just replaced this one silver dollar sized o-ring. #43 in the chart that was posted earlier... I think.

Cervan · #14 07-02-2007, 05:13 PM

ah i think i know whats going on now. see the mechanic took the IP off and replaced the oring that goes between the block and the IP. when he did this he must have thought he messed up the timing. so he tried to put it to TDC or something and then realine the ip with the sprocket. i belive its timing involved not the delivery valves.

dylancarter · #15 07-02-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cervan

ah i think i know whats going on now. see the mechanic took the IP off and replaced the oring that goes between the block and the IP. when he did this he must have thought he messed up the timing. so he tried to put it to TDC or something and then realine the ip with the sprocket. i belive its timing involved not the delivery valves.

Yes yes yes - This sounds right to me. So, now what? Dealer? or is there something I can pass along to the mechanic? He is a good guy, just not familiar with this car.