I pulled head off om617 to machine.

During the time at machine shop I had turned turned the motor over many times.
I did not take off the injection pump or the bolt that is suppose to keep the chain from jumping.

A couple times I didn't keep the chain tight when turning and the chain bound up somewhere in the block but after rotating backward and forward all was good or so I thought.

Got the cylinder head back.

Putting things back together and the paint marks I made on chain and cam sprocket were off by 5 teeth.

I moved the crank to 0 and the timing mark on the cam tower will not line up even when I moved the 5 teeth over on the cam sprocket.

I bought an offset woodruff key but its not doing the job.
Plus I don't think the pump is timed anymore.

Is there a sure fire way to remove the entire chain without taking the pump off?
Also I milled the head but it was just to clean it up and was not warped, so I don't think it could have contributed.
Also the before I took it apart the cam mark was exactly lined up.

The engine is on a stand.
After reading the on-line FSM I don't think I have the skill to mess with the timing mechanism behind the vacuum pump.

I can time a gas motor no problem.
Maybe I'm just scared because I never worked on a diesel before this thing.
I hate to buy more parts for this thing as the block has scoring in the cylinders.
My plan is to get this thing put together enough to do s compression test, if its good I'll slap in new chain and new head bolts.

The donor car ran fine and did not smoke, but it did have blow-by that went away when revved.
Found out previous owner ran fryer grease in it.

If this block turns out to be no good I may find a running donor so I can just pull, clean and install it in my project.
Ill sell this ported and rebuilt head to recoup some scratch.

.

Well it sounds to me like you've got yourself really confused. In these cases I think white marks here and white marks there help to confuse more than they actually help. If I were you I'd start again...

...but before you do did you check the height between the valves and the surface of the block? (Back to FSM for the specs I'm afraid)

Whilst you've been doing all of this trying to refit the chain on the head stuff have you removed the chain tensioner? (You don't say so in your post - so I ask)

Do not expect the cam shaft tower notch and the 0 degree mark at the crank to match up on a used chain.

If you turn the crank with the cam timed with about a distance of 5 teeth in the wrong place then you will be pushing the valves into the piston heads.

This is not a "safe" engine - if the chain is one tooth in the wrong place then the chances are that you'll get collisions between piston head and valve.

Do not fit the rocker arms until you are 100% sure that the timing is correct.

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Thank you for the help.
Yes I did remove the tensioner.
I also did not make sure the valve clearances were within tolerances.
I was able to reuse the stock size prechamber washer/seals, they are well within tolerance so I just assumed the valves were OK.

Like I said the head was just touched up for gasket sealing.
I actually just screwed down the rocker stands and was going to carefully turn the motor over tomorrow to see where the timing marks lined up after a couple revolutions.
I planned on being extra careful.

I'm not worried to much about the cam timing as much as I'm worried about the injection pump.
Is there a mark that I can see to where I need to align to?

Can I take the inspection cover off the bottom of the pump and make sure the lobe is compressing the delivery valve at 24°.
Heck, at this point I may as well pull it completely apart.

I wanted to pull the pistons out to hone the cylinders and install some new rings.
I heard not to do this but cannot see why this would be bad, it couldn't hurt at this point now I'm guessing.

I measured the bore and its square but out of spec at the top the bore.
The taper is out right at the top where the rings change direction.
I would like to chance it if I could expect to have even compression qt around 340 to 380 in each cylinder, I'm not looking or expecting factory new compression numbers.
I know I'm all over the place have a lot of questions and don't really know anyone with real world practical experience.
Closest scenario I read is of a guy who did a kitchen table rebuild in Mexico with parts he had left over and some generic rebuild kit parts.

Anyway its late and my hand is cramping from typing on my phone.
Not looking for high hp , the engine is for my off road Toyota truck project.
Just need it to be reliable.

.

The IP does have alignment marks but you then need to fine tune the adjustment (most people here seem to do the drip test => PeachPartsWiki: How to Set IP Timing via the Drip Tube Method)

There's also information for the timing chain elongation measurement is here

PeachPartsWiki: Measuring Timing Chain Stretch

If you are used to rebuilding old US petrol engines (or even old English ones too!) then you might want to pay a little bit more attention to the specifications on this German diesel - I don't want to seem rude but they tend to have closer tolerances which are a bit more critical than you might think (if you are used to the other stuff).

It sounds like you have access to a machine shop - in which case I'd consider replacing the bore liners - re-boring to you existing piston sizes and getting it done now. I can't tell for sure (I don't think anyone can) but it sounds like you'll have it in bits again quite soon if you don't get it sorted now. This is just my gut feeling from information typed in a thread on the internet...

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

If this happed to what would be the least confusing would be to just resign Myself to the fact that the Fuel Injection Pump needs to be pulled out.
This also means You will not need to worry about the mark you painted; just use the Engine Timing Marks.

Once the Fuel Injection Pump is out you only need to line the Crankshaft Damper to OT and line up the and get the Timing Chain and Gear back on the Camshaft with the Timing Mark Behind the Gear and the Camshaft Bearing Tower markline up.

I assume when you do that you apply a counter clockwise force on the Camshaft Gear + Chain before you slide it on so that you are pulling the Chain tight from the Cranksaft Gear and the Timer Gear. Because the Timing Chain Tensioner is not on yet.

If you have a Turbo Model the Timing Chain Plunger Piston needs to be reset; pulled out and re-inserted; as it only goes one way; and it needs to be inserted from the opposite end.
Of course the Timing Chain Tensioner Rail goes in before the Tesioner does.

If you are reusing the Timing Chain I would not expect that when the Camshaft Gear/Bearing Tower are lined up that it is going to be lined up with OT on the Damper. I would expect it to line up somewhere after Ot (Top Dead Center).

After the Timing Chain issue is sorted out then you can deal with the Fuel Injection Pump Timing.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

If your Fuel Injection Pump has the Port for it for about $37 you can get the Fuel Injection Pump Timing Locking Pin.

With that properly in Place you just need to turn your Engine in the Direction of rotation till it is coming up on the Compression stroke. When you reach top Dead Center on the Compression Stroke turn it past tha and stop at 15 detrees after OT (after top dead center).

At that point with the Fuel Injection Pump Timing Locking Pin installed you just stick the Pump in so that the Studs are as close to being centered tin the Kidney slots on the Front Pump Flangs as you can and tighten up the Fuel Injection Pump, remove the Timing Locking Pin and replace the Plug.
If you want there is another plug at the top of the Governor Housing where you can dump in some Engine Oil; about 1 pint.
And, you should be all timed.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Great advice.
Thank you.

I may just purchase a complete engine out of a seized or wrecked car.

Its gonna cost $4000 dollars versus 500 for a used engine.

I may tear into this thing myself just as an expensive learning tool so I will be familiar with everything but I'm at least gonna try to time this correctly.

I figured out how to drip time this thing no problem.
I just cannot find any base timing marks.

I need to buy a FSM.

What do you think about honing and installing some cast rings, at this point I would really like to pull the crank and have a crack at it.

I haven't seen much info on doing this so I'm guessing there is a reason.
Basic theory suggests that as long as the rings seat evenly it should have OK compression.
I'll just crank the boost up a bit lol.

I'm more concerned with a round bore than the taper, only the top 5% of the stroke is out so if I can lessen this with a moderate hone I would expect it to be fine.

.

I think new Round Rings in an oval Cylinder Bore are not a good combination.

It has been posted a bunch of times that the Manual can be viewed free on at Mercedes Startek. Stretch will direct you to the site.

The Fuel Injection Pump Timing Locking Pin I think is adequate for timing but it is not the same as Drip Timing.

I have done the Drip Timing but later when I removed the Fuel Injection Pump I used the Timing Pin and not checked with the drip method.

The main thing about the Timing Pin is that it would be reall hard to oops and rotate the Cam inside of the Fuel Injection Pump during installation.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Feel like an idiot I was a cam tooth off.

I'm using an offset key and I'm at 3° after TDC Cam timing.
I think this is pretty good for a milled head and old chain.

If the compression checks out I'll install a new chain.

One thing is I pulled the injection pump before I found out that the cam tooth was off.
This may be best as now I can learn how to time it from scratch.

I looked over the pump and cannot figure out where the lock pin would go, is it under a screw?

I think I saw in the FSM to clock it to 10 o'clock??

Is it typical to do trial and error when installing the pump?
Looks really easy to be a tooth off.

.

Thank you diesel911. Got the info I needed from the fsm. Cake! Looks like both methods with and without locking pin is straight forward.

To answer your basic question about honing sleeves.

Cylinder sleeves are cheap.
MB# 6160111210
Pelican Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW

Piston rings are cheap.
MB# 0030302424
Pelican Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW

Wrist Pin Bushings are cheap.
MB# 6170380150
Pelican Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW

Removing the old sleeve is simple.
Pressing in the new sleeve can be DIY or most engine shops can do it for you.
Boring the cylinders requires special knowledge, skill, and equipment, few are equipped to DIY.

The pistons are rarely damaged, and good used ones are cheap = reuse them.

New MB Pistons are HIGH priced, because of quality / durability.
MB# 6170301017
A set of five is roughly $2,000.0 USD.

Connecting rod bearings (standard) are cheap.
MB# 6170300560
Pelican Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW

Main Bearing Set (70.00 mm, Standard) are cheap.
MB# 6170300540
Pelican Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW

Here is more data on the topic
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/244375-om616-617-engine-rebuild-threads.html

IMO: Following the FSM this is a very cheap engine to rebuild, if it has not been driven to destruction.


.

__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Vehicle build.
Fleet Durability
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1985 300SD
1983 300D
1984 190D
2003 Volvo V70
2002 Honda Civic

https://www.boldegoist.com/

I know you already found what you needed to know so I will post this incase someone else reads the Thread.
On the Older Fuel Injection Pumps you can't use the currently made Fuel Injection Pump Timing Locking Pin that has a 17mm Head on it.

If you don't have the 17mm Plug (the blue Arrow points to) on the Governor Housing of the Fuel Injection Pump you cannot use the current Timing Locking Pin. The Timing Locking Pin replaces that Plug.

The Pic on the right shows the Timing Locking Pin installed.

No pic on the but also in the Manual there was a bunch of Fuel Injection Pumps that the timing marks are marked wrong on. You need to read the Manual see if your Fuel Injection Pump matches the number range and Year that has that issue.

Attached Thumbnails

   

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

If I understand you correctly.

1) you marked the chain relative to the cam sprocket.
2) You have not removed the IP.
3) You rotated the engine a number of time clockwise.

I think you are OK with the timing. My experience with the OM603 engine is that if you mark the chain with the cam sprocket position and turn the engine then the mark will gradually get out of sync by 1 tooth or there about per revolution. If you turn the engine counter clockwise then the mark will line up again. This is true with the OM603 as I have done 2 engines. I am not sure about the OM617 but I expect it to be the same.

btw: the chain will not jump tooth if engine is turned counterclockwise on the OM603. It is just physically impossible as it is restricted at 2 locations around the chain. I do not know about OM617.

Hope this help.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

Thank you for all the input. I got it figured out. I have to say that this motor is so basic. I just get angst about things I have never done but once I jump in im usualy fine. Kinda like jumping into cold water lol. If I can give anyone advice I would say that if you are careless you couod mess up the ttiming. Otherwise dont sweat it. I found that you need to make sure the crank and cam time are lined up to tdc compression stroke. Then rotate the motor until you see that you are going back into compression stroke cyl #1. Stop at 24° before tdc , if you dont have the pin follow the directions from the fsm to identify the timming mark. Once the pump is there its hard to bump it off unless your drunk or your doing the pee pee dance while trying to line up. Put the collar on the spline in the block (no marks to worry about just stick it in). Carefully slide the pump into the collar you just put on while paying attention to the factory chisel mark (line the marks up). Once the pump is inserted put a nut on the stud and dont stress about the pump moving around its ok. Put the rest of the nuts on finger tight then line the chisel mark back up and sinch down the nuts. Should be darn close to spec. but do the drip method at this point.
Im confident I did it right.

One question I hqve is. Can you do the drip test with all of the injection lines off?

*

I say yes because the Delivery Valves have their own Springs and they should be able to hold back the pressure from the Hand Primer as you pump it. But, I have never tried that before in the last 5 years on this particular type of Fuel Injection Pump.

However, you will be finding out soon.

Turning the Engine may cause Fuel to spurt out; especially if you use the Starter to do that.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel