WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School - Page 32 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jorn · #**466** 12-17-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

No.

Better training and a wiser populace. Not disarming everyone and making the entire country a fish in a barrel game. Gun free zones are a complete joke.

Off course they are, they are make believe zones.

cmac2012 · #**467** 12-17-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

The second amendment to the Constitution does not address waiting periods, registration or "convicted felons and other identified individuals."
Logically, if you think waiting periods are "unconstitutional", then you'd also have to conclude that taking away the gun rights of a convicted felon is too.

Common sense has left the equation of them that wrap themselves in the second amendment.

Jorn · #**468** 12-17-2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumPI

Everyone wants to relegate to the state responsibility for safety and societal balance, then give them the tools they need to do the job as close to absolutely as possible. I got jumped on for proposing people keep their own kids safe(ironically by someone who views the human race as a disease), so to hell with it. Go ahead and give your kids mind altering pharmaceuticals, with violent side effects, particularly the withdrawals, for a couple decades. But send them to where at least they'll be under constant surveillance. Everything is heading that direction anyway. Skip a few steps.
I mean, you can't put a price on the life of a child, so if it saves even one kid, it would be worth it. Just someone stick to a principle for God's sake. Anyone, please. This fence sitting is killing me.

And who pays for that? When old Ronnie had to save some money in the 80's he closed all the mental hospitals and kicked them on the street. And here we are.

raymr · #**469** 12-17-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

No.

Better training and a wiser populace. Not disarming everyone and making the entire country a fish in a barrel game. Gun free zones are a complete joke.

I agree with this. Washington DC was our own local grand experiment with a gun ban that started in 1976. After that, murder rates spiraled upwards well into the 1990's. Around 2000 there was a downward trend that was uninterrupted by a repeal of the gun ban in 2008. They are now on track for the lowest murder rate since 1963. A gun ban did not help DC. But instead it helped it turn into an open air drug market where just the thugs were armed.

MagnumPI · #**470** 12-17-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

And who pays for that? When old Ronnie had to save some money in the 80's he closed all the mental hospitals and kicked them on the street. And here we are.

Who cares? Print it, borrow it, raise taxes. All of the above. Military is allegedly really efficient, so you could have twice as many kids on half as many campii with half as many teachers. Their pay is pretty similar, I think. And no security is necessary. Again, you CAN'T put a price on a kids' life, stop trying to.
Then of course no truancy officers, integrate the juvenile penal facilities. It can be done.

Mike Murrell · #**471** 12-17-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

They are now on track for the lowest murder rate since 1963. A gun ban did not help DC. But instead it helped it turn into an open air drug market where just the thugs were armed.

A point the gun-control-crowd can't come to grips with. They apparently believe the thugs will turns in their guns.

pj67coll · #**472** 12-17-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBlovr

Could be though I think studies tend to conclude that whacking kids tends to increase their propensity toward violence.

I call BS on that meme. It's trotted out by people all the time but the inherent fallacy is never highlighted. Prior to the shrinkification of society in the 60s' whacking badly behaved kids was pretty normal. Your ancestors were not child abusers for doing so. They were parents disciplining their kids. Now they are regarded as child abusers because the modern religion of shrinking has decreed it. Bull**** says I.

Quote:

I think in general there has been a increased breakdown in community and we have become a more isolationist materialistically focussed society. Could be wrong though

That is certainly true.

- Peter.

cmac2012 · #**473** 12-17-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

If we strip away pure emotion and get down to analytical logic the deal comes down to this: We cannot control A (nut jobs), however, we can control B (ourselves). If every teacher was armed and well trained in the use of deadly force, they would be in a position to stop the carnage at the point of invasion. Bolt bullet proof desks to the floors of each class room. Install a digital security lock on a desk drawer which houses a high capacity hand gun. Require that teachers attend firearms training monthly. Post the teacher's targets/shooting scores in the front entry of the school.

Why all this? Because it is true, a pussy will seek out a venue where they know no defense will be presented, i.e. a "gun free" zone. These pussies know that in a school, they will face very little opposition. Obviously, we are at war and there is an enemy that MUST be dealt with. Banning guns, limiting the amount of ammunition etc etc. are all band aids.

If these whacko psychotic nut jobs are looking to go out in a blaze of glory, give them what they want, only don't allow them take out innocents in the process.

It all sounds heroic but Lanza's mother had guns so she could protect herself. Statistics show that privately owned weapons are something like 4 times more likely, IIRC, to kill oneself or a family member than an intruder. The odds of any one teacher ever being in a position to use a handgun to protect themselves or their students are slim. Then we have to deal with the fallout when they leave their guns unattended somewhere and one of their students or children get hold of it.

The recent Oregon mall shooting was the first I can recall where a C&C individual actually was in the right place at the right time. Most people don't want to C&C. I don't. That may change but I sorta doubt it.

pj67coll · #**474** 12-17-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I would not be against training and arming some teachers who have aptitude for it and possbily already are experienced with guns.

But arming all of them is not a viable idea.

This is probably the best overall solution I think. You don't need every member of the staff to be armed. Just a sufficiently large number that you have a "critical defensive mass". In a school of maybe 30 staff members you probably wouldn't need more than about three or four.

It might vary be location around the country but around here it wouldn't be hard to find that percentage able to do so and quite possibly willing as well.

I don't think it's necessary to carry "high capacity" glock type weapons either. A simple six shooter would probably suffice. Simple and a lot safer than semi-autos.

- Peter.

Dubyagee · #**475** 12-17-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

This is probably the best overall solution I think. You don't need every member of the staff to be armed. Just a sufficiently large number that you have a "critical defensive mass". In a school of maybe 30 staff members you probably wouldn't need more than about three or four.

It might vary be location around the country but around here it wouldn't be hard to find that percentage able to do so and quite possibly willing as well.

I don't think it's necessary to carry "high capacity" glock type weapons either. A simple six shooter would probably suffice. Simple and a lot safer than semi-autos.

- Peter.

Finally some common sense. Instead of "ban everything" and "you're gonna militarize the world."

Jorn · #**476** 12-17-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Murrell

A point the gun-control-crowd can't come to grips with. They apparently believe the thugs will turns in their guns.

Thugs kill thugs, criminals that carry guns to do their "job" don't bother with civilians that often, they use it against their rival thugs. Most gun victims knew there assailant; same with rape and child sex abuse victims. A point the gun swaggers don't seem to get.

Brian Carlton · #**477** 12-17-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

criminals that carry guns to do their "job" don't bother with civilians that often, they use it against their rival thugs.

...........would you like to explain that to the 20 sets of parents?

I wouldn't.

Dubyagee · #**478** 12-17-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

Thugs kill thugs, criminals that carry guns to do their "job" don't bother with civilians, they use it against their rival thugs. Most gun victims knew there assailant; same with rape and child abuse victims. A point the gun swaggers don't get.

Ridiculous. Some sort of thug code in effect. Murderers murder and thugs thug. No civilian/thug line. Ban guns and thugs will still have them and use them on the now unarmed civilians. Brilliant.

pj67coll · #**479** 12-17-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

The recent Oregon mall shooting was the first I can recall where a C&C individual actually was in the right place at the right time. Most people don't want to C&C. I don't. That may change but I sorta doubt it.

No. I'ts happened in at least three other instances I'm aware of. Two overseas. One was that church shooting a couple of years ago here in the states, one was the instance I've mentioned earlier at a school in Germany some years ago now where a perp was shot by an armed teacher and the other I can recall was back in my homeland of SA where a similar incident also happened in a church and the perps were shot by members of the congregation.

- Peter.

Jorn · #**480** 12-17-2012, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

...........would you like to explain that to the 20 sets of parents?
I wouldn't.

He was not a thug in my book but a very sick person with a mom that knew the danger but didn't took the right steps. She was a victim of her own fear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

Ridiculous. Some sort of thug code in effect. Murderers murder and thugs thug. No civilian/thug line. Ban guns and thugs will still have them and use them on the now unarmed civilians. Brilliant.

It's not ridicules at all. Look at the numbers, murders by complete strangers are extremely rare and that's why they make the news.