Repeal the Second Amendment? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmbdiesel · #31 03-25-2013, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I think SOME gun control advocates are concerned by overall gun violence. I further believe those gun control advocates are unwitting tools of those who favor eliminating an armed populace for other reasons.

NONE of the measures I have seen advanced would have prevented the recent tragedy. In fact, not even the supporters make any claim that their measures would prevent gun tragedies. Therefore you must look for another reason.

Most people are unwitting tools...

I agree that the legislation would not have prevented Sandy Hook, and am glad that Feinstein's legislation was dropped.
The fact that no legislation will ever completely eliminate some of the tragedies like Sandy Hook is not enough for some people to stop their efforts to achieve gun control. There are many who would gladly give up all the guns if it saved one life.

Air&Road · #32 03-25-2013, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Why? If enough people wish to amend the 2nd, (that is part of the system) then the rest should be American enough to accept that change.

Hardline comments like yours provide nothing.

BTW, I voted no, mostly because I did not like the way #3 was worded. The 2nd does not need to be rewritten, it needs amending. The original language should not be tampered with, but clarification outlining what is acceptable to the people at this juncture in time should be added. Obviously, the firearm has evolved incredibly since the adoption of COTUS, and the 2nd should be amended to reflect those changes. It is supposed to be a living document, not a stale old piece of paper with no relevance to the modern world.

Certainly, I believe that any attempts to alter/interpret the 2nd should be done with amendment rather than legislation. It is a far higher bar, and I believe much more representative of the will of the people.
Congress has gotten awfully eager to repress the rights afforded to us under COTUS, and I don't believe there are many people who like that tendency.
If they want to directly impact our rights under COTUS, then they should be using the amendment procedures outlined in article 5, not doing end around legislation.

And YOU should be American enough to accept the US Constitution. What is more American than that?

cmbdiesel · #33 03-25-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yeah, I do recall what you wrote and your assumption maybe correct. Damned if I can figure out what they want.

Assuming you are right, I had hoped you might provide the supporting data they have accumulated to bolster their argument. All I could find is that murders have dropped and violence has dropped.

I'm betting somebody somewhere has the data but isn't playing show-and-tell. If it's the gun lobby then we could assume they are hiding gun violence. If it's the gun control lobby then they are hiding a lack of supporting evidence for gun violence.

All I could find was FBI stats, which clearly show a downward trend in violence in almost every category. It would be really interesting to know what would cause all violent crimes to decrease but violent gun crimes to increase.

Do you think I am sauced?

Not particularly

, but I guess I'm just not sure what you are looking for.
Even if every statistic displayed a drop in overall gun violence, there would still be some people clamoring for more gun control.
Seeking reason from them is embarking upon a snipe hunt.

cmbdiesel · #34 03-25-2013, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

And YOU should be American enough to accept the US Constitution. What is more American than that?

I do accept the Constitution Larry.
Maybe I don't accept your extremely limited and narrow interpretation of it...

I also accept the fact that the Constitution can be amended.

Now that's American!!!

Botnst · #35 03-25-2013, 09:27 PM

Mend it, don't end it.

P.C. · #36 03-25-2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

And YOU should be American enough to accept the US Constitution. What is more American than that?

Is it un-American to consider revisions to the existing Constitution? Are existing constitutional amendments the product of unpatriotic activities?

whunter · #37 03-25-2013, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Most people are unwitting tools...

I agree that the legislation would not have prevented Sandy Hook, and am glad that Feinstein's legislation was dropped.
The fact that no legislation will ever completely eliminate some of the tragedies like Sandy Hook is not enough for some people to stop their efforts to achieve gun control. There are many who would gladly give up all the guns if it saved one life.

There are deluded people willing to surrender their freedom, and become slaves to serve their mistaken belief.

The vaporous fantasy is easily equal to prohibition and the FAILED war on drugs that is hemorrhaging money and destroying people/property + filling prisons in record numbers.

I strongly suggest you read
L. Gordon Crovitz: You Commit Three Felonies a Day - Barrons.com
Boston civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate calls his new book "Three Felonies a Day," referring to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now unwittingly commits because of vague laws. New technology adds its own complexity, making innocent activity potentially criminal.
L. Gordon Crovitz: You Commit Three Felonies a Day - Barrons.com

Amazon.com: Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent (9781594035227): Harvey Silverglate: Books

America, Land of the … Prosecuted?

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/inc_Trends_in_Corrections_Fact_sheet.pdf

Trusting government with your personal self defense is simple suicide or slavery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

Here is a quote from
The tree of liberty
The tree of liberty... (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson

If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.

****************************
IMO: If the government ever takes our right to bear arms, the right of free speech, and all other rights shall fall.

Educate yourself.
Defend your rights, or you will one day wake to the fact of slavery.

Lincoln’s House Divided Speech, 1858
A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other.
Lincoln Quotes on Slavery

.

cmbdiesel · #38 03-25-2013, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

There are deluded people willing to surrender their freedom, and become slaves to serve their mistaken belief.

The vaporous fantasy is easily equal to prohibition and the FAILED war on drugs that is hemorrhaging money and destroying people/property + filling prisons in record numbers.

I strongly suggest you read
L. Gordon Crovitz: You Commit Three Felonies a Day - Barrons.com
Boston civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate calls his new book "Three Felonies a Day," referring to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now unwittingly commits because of vague laws. New technology adds its own complexity, making innocent activity potentially criminal.
L. Gordon Crovitz: You Commit Three Felonies a Day - Barrons.com

Amazon.com: Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent (9781594035227): Harvey Silverglate: Books

America, Land of the … Prosecuted?

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/inc_Trends_in_Corrections_Fact_sheet.pdf

Trusting government with your personal self defense is simple suicide or slavery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

Here is a quote from
The tree of liberty
The tree of liberty... (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson

If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.

****************************
IMO: If the government ever takes our right to bear arms, the right of free speech, and all other rights shall fall.

Educate yourself.
Defend your rights, or you will one day wake to the fact of slavery.

Lincoln’s House Divided Speech, 1858
A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other.
Lincoln Quotes on Slavery

.

Easy now... I only said that they exist, not that I'm one of them.

anthonyb · #39 03-26-2013, 02:52 AM

Dear Lord, in all of the talk about gun rights on this board I have only seen one example posted where guns helped to preserve the rights of a township, a case that (if it happened today, as opposed to 60 years ago) would have most likely been litigated into oblivion after being posted all over twitter and the web. Whereas there have been hundreds (if not thousands) of cases of rights being defended and expanded through our judicial and legislative process in that same period of time.

Botnst · #40 03-26-2013, 09:11 AM

Yeah, like the USA Patriot Act. The creation of DHS. Now there's some big-time rights expansion. No nibbling around the edges like a buncha pansy-eating goats. Take the whole enchilada and gov has a fait accompli.

Think DHS is going away? USA Patriot Act going away?

Oh well, at least we can get a bj in a motel now.

Air&Road · #41 03-26-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I assume the reason gun control advocates are motivated is to decrease the murder rate.

FBI Uniform Crime Reports show homicides dropped to 12,664 in 2011, the last year available. The murder rate has dropped from 9.3 per 100,000 in 1992 to 4.7 per 100,000 in 2011.

FBI — Table 1

There you go again Bot, muddling up these peoples minds with FACTS!

Air&Road · #42 03-26-2013, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

I do accept the Constitution Larry.
Maybe I don't accept your extremely limited and narrow interpretation of it...

I also accept the fact that the Constitution can be amended.

Now that's American!!!

Hmmm...... I'm reading what I wrote VERY closely and I'm finding it impossible to see where I wrote that the COTUS can NOT be ammended. Hmmm..... still can't find it.

My problem is with pompous asses that refuse to acknowledge the COTUS.

MTUpower · #43 03-26-2013, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Stats to back up the assertion that gun control advocates want to see an overall decrease in gun violence??

I think people want more gun control laws because they are worried that women voting will ruin our country. I think women want the right to vote because too many people are killed by guns.

cmbdiesel · #44 03-26-2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Hmmm...... I'm reading what I wrote VERY closely and I'm finding it impossible to see where I wrote that the COTUS can NOT be ammended. Hmmm..... still can't find it.

My problem is with pompous asses that refuse to acknowledge the COTUS.

Then maybe you should direct your comments at them, Larry old boy...

JamesDean · #45 03-26-2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

There you go again Bot, muddling up these peoples minds with FACTS!

LOL.

These facts are useless in this argument.

What are you trying to say with these?

Guns caused the drop in homicides?

I could just as easily claim the advent of Google caused them to drop or the invention of the modern video games! That was the starting era for the Doom series and Wolfenstein!

Quote:

FBI Uniform Crime Reports show homicides dropped to 12,664 in 2011, the last year available. The murder rate has dropped from 9.3 per 100,000 in 1992 to 4.7 per 100,000 in 2011.

View Poll Results: Should we repeal the Second Amendment?
Yes	4	9.30%
No	35	81.40%
Reword it to clarify who can own and what can be owned	2	4.65%
Second Amendment? What's that?	2	4.65%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll