Botched execution in Oklahoma - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JB3 · #46 04-30-2014, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle

Actually lethal injection was introduced as a way to humanly kill the guilty. An Episcopal Priest suggested this after watching a few electric chair episodes in McAlester.

I have seen the actual chair and it does look like a gruesome way to go. The actual cause of death is burning and all the jolt does is cook you. Fire will shoot out of your fingertips and your brain catches on fire allowing massive amounts of smoke to escape from under the hood. The hood, by the way, is to keep the eyes from hitting the viewers since they explode and pop out of the head.

Pretty harsh on everyone concerned including those pulling the switch. Yeah, I've talked to that guy, too. He says it was just a job, but it was more like someone had to do it so he just manned up and did it. It sure wasn't something he looked forward to.

Even those that work on Death Row get depressed by the job. If that is your assignment then you only really work two days a week in H block. The other three days you sort of putter around doing odd jobs and decompressing from the two days of H block work. Remember: These Guards are spending two shifts with the sickest of the sick when it comes to evil and it is hard to not let that rub off on you when you come in contact with it day after day.

There is a chance here for Oklahoma to back up and look the whole thing over before going ahead and doing this correctly. We are in a position now to set the standard for the entire world on how to do this right. Will we? If the folks in OKC are smart, and there is no reason to think they are, we will.

Im not a fan of the chair either. I dont mind the idea of a gallows though, especially a properly operated long drop. IMO, the death should be quick and sudden, which satisfies the prevention of cruel and unusual punishment.

Door opens, you drop a long way, neck snaps, spine is severed, oxygen stops to the brain, blood pressure drops to zero, subject immediately loses consciousness, brain death in a few minutes, complete death in 15 or 20 minutes depending on the the person.

MTI · #47 04-30-2014, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Are you 100% sure that was the murderer or 96% sure? What if next week we find out that they killed an innocent man? Where would you concern swing at that point?

Square it with the "all life is precious" sentiment of some folks and that will have your head spinning for a bit. It would seem that there's a segment that would relish the "blood lust" of certain disdained religions.

aklim · #48 04-30-2014, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Oh wait, you're telling me that the State doesn't have the stomach to kill people in a way that actually LOOKS like killing? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Most people don't. I wouldn't give a rodent's behind. We want much but don't want to get our hands dirty.

aklim · #49 04-30-2014, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramonajim

Ain't no do overs if you're wrong.

If you want to sooth yourself to sleep, fine. Question, what form of punishment has a "do over" if you are wrong?

tjts1 · #50 04-30-2014, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Absolutely - one less murderer.

Hats off to OK and of course my home State, Texas, for strong death penalty laws!

I hope the following gives you a comforting, warm fuzzy feeling inside whenever you think about the death penalty in Texas, which you are so proud of.

Quote:

Cameron Todd Willingham (January 9, 1968 – February 17, 2004) was an American man who was convicted of murdering his three young children by arson at the family home in Corsicana, Texas on December 23, 1991. He was executed in 2004.
Willingham's case gained renewed attention in 2009 when an investigative report by David Grann in The New Yorker, drawing upon arson investigation experts and advances in fire science since the 1992 investigation, suggested that the evidence for arson was unconvincing and, had this information been available at the time of trial, would have provided grounds for Willingham's acquittal.
According to an August 2009 investigative report by an expert hired by the Texas Forensic Science Commission, the original claims of arson were doubtful. The Corsicana Fire Department disputes the findings, stating that the report overlooked several key points in the record. The case has been further complicated by allegations that Texas Governor Rick Perry impeded the investigation by replacing three of the nine commission members in an attempt to change the commission's findings; Perry denies the allegations.

Johnny Frank Garrett (December 24, 1963 – February 11, 1992) was a Texas inmate executed for the October 31, 1981 rape and murder of 76-year-old nun, Tadea Benz. Years after his execution, serious doubts about his guilt were raised.
In March, 2004, cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Perez Rueda as the rapist and murderer of Narnie Box Bryson, another elderly Amarillo victim killed four months prior to the murder of Sister Benz. Immediately following Sister Benz's murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant. In both cases, the killer left behind a white shirt at the crime scene. In both cases, black curly head hairs were found on the victims and linked to Rueda. Previously unidentified fingerprints in Sister Benz's room were matched to Rueda. In both cases, the victims suffered matching cuts and stab wounds. And in both cases, witnesses identified dark-skinned men in white shirts at the scene shortly before the killings.

Carlos DeLuna (March 15, 1962 – December 7, 1989) was an American man who was convicted of murder and executed by the State of Texas for the killing of a 24-year-old gas station attendant on the evening of February 4, 1983. Since DeLuna's execution by lethal injection in 1989, doubts have been raised about the conviction and the question of his guilt. An investigation published by the Columbia Human Rights Law Review in May 2012 has strengthened these claims of innocence by detailing a large amount of evidence suggesting the actual murderer was Carlos Hernandez, a similar-looking man who lived in a nearby neighborhood.

aklim · #51 04-30-2014, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I guess it all depends on which side of the equation you are on. I suspect that a one here in favor of the death penalty a would change their tune if they or someone they knew were set to be executed for a crime of which they are innocent.

Would you be in favor of incarceration? What if there is a mistake? How will you turn back the clock?

Idle · #52 04-30-2014, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

Im not a fan of the chair either. I dont mind the idea of a gallows though, especially a properly operated long drop. IMO, the death should be quick and sudden, which satisfies the prevention of cruel and unusual punishment.

Door opens, you drop a long way, neck snaps, spine is severed, oxygen stops to the brain, blood pressure drops to zero, subject immediately loses consciousness, brain death in a few minutes, complete death in 15 or 20 minutes depending on the the person.

It worked well enough for Saddam. And I think the US military still considers it an approved method.

Strangely enough hanging in a professional manner was developed close to McAlester. In the beginning you were just strangled to death, but in the late 1800's some guy from around here figured out that if it was done just right the big knot would break your neck and it would all be over with quickly and even with less pain.

I am sure there was a period of trial and error which was rather interesting for those on the end of the rope, but out of it came the method used today.

Oklahoma was a Territory then and no Territory had the power to take the life of a citizen. But Fort Smith is close by, and Judge Issac Parker had all the power in the world to use this new method so he did.

Again.... Saddam didn't seem to suffer.

tjts1 · #53 04-30-2014, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If you want to sooth yourself to sleep, fine. Question, what form of punishment has a "do over" if you are wrong?

Oh I don't know. Why don't you ask one of these men. Maybe they can come up with an answer to satisfy your curiosity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates#2010.E2.80.932014

MTI · #54 04-30-2014, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If you want to sooth yourself to sleep, fine. Question, what form of punishment has a "do over" if you are wrong?

I've read your position in several other death penalty threads. Correct me if I'm misreading it, but I believe your premise is that since there is no "just compensation" for being incarcerated, the death penalty superior?

First, there are few, if any, "just compensations." So, should any attempt at compensation or alternatives be dismissed? That makes less sense than the belief that being alive is not better than being wrongly executed.

Second, in the US legal system, economic compensation or consideration is pretty much all the system can award or enforce. While you may find that less than fulfilling, it's what we do.

Idle · #55 04-30-2014, 08:13 PM

A lot of the Conservative press is saying this is the fault of 'Progressives' for putting pressure on drug makers to shut off sales of the old drugs to states.

But they are overlooking the fact that the State of Oklahoma did zero research on the drugs they intended to use that they will release to the public. Until today they would not disclose the name of the drugs or where they were getting them. (We still don't know where they come from, but we know what they are since Oklahoma is now trying to show the world that despite evidence to the contrary the state is not run by a bunch of Yay-hoos.)

So the state was sued to make them disclose this info. The state took it all the way to the state Supreme Court that ruled that under Oklahoma law they could not keep the drugs names or the sources under wraps.

So the Republicans here decided they don't need three branches of government and told the Judges that ruled against them they were going to impeach them. No reason was given except that Republican lawmakers did not like the way they were making the state stick to the law. Our Governor was behind the Republican lawmakers every step of the way on this and even admonished the Judges that if they did not start ruling the way the Republicans wanted they would find some who would.

So the Supremes caved the next day, although the state was warned that the results of the execution would only be as good as the tests they ran on the drugs. The state still refused to disclose the type of drugs or the results of any tests and just told everyone we had to trust them in this matter and if you didn't like it then you were just a Commie or something.

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together!

Skippy · #56 04-30-2014, 08:24 PM

I saw this movie once that depicted an execution that happened in the Roman Empire. The guy who got it in the movie probably didn't deserve it, but he angered the wrong folks. Anyway, I think the way it went would be good for the most heinous offenses. The movie was called The Passion of the Christ. For your run of the mill murders a bullet to the head would be simple, cheap, and effective. However, I think more entertainment value could be had feeding them to dangerous animals like lions, or forcing the condemned to fight other condemned convicts to the death. Perhaps they could throw in commutation of the sentence to life after a certain number of victories.

greazzer · #57 04-30-2014, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

The saddest part of the story is that there seems to be more concern for the murderer than for the victim.

Bingo. Generally, from what I can tell, there's a large group of folks who swoon all over the killer. The victim(s) and their family, well ... they don't seem to get a lot of press. Perhaps a consitutional amendment and make executions a public spectacle again.

elchivito · #58 04-30-2014, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

I saw this movie once that depicted an execution that happened in the Roman Empire. The guy who got it in the movie probably didn't deserve it, but he angered the wrong folks. Anyway, I think the way it went would be good for the most heinous offenses. The movie was called The Passion of the Christ. For your run of the mill murders a bullet to the head would be simple, cheap, and effective. However, I think more entertainment value could be had feeding them to dangerous animals like lions, or forcing the condemned to fight other condemned convicts to the death. Perhaps they could throw in commutation of the sentence to life after a certain number of victories.

The problem of a bullet in the head is the same problem with hanging and the guillotine and the electric chair. ONE person has to do the shooting, or else you put a dozen shooters up. One person pulls the lever that drops the blade, one person throws the switch. Nobody wants to be the sanctioned killer, so we have all these absurd workarounds. Three people administer three different vials of poison, none of which will kill by itself. Absolution. "I didn't kill him".
We don't have the courage of our convictions in this deal. There is no justification that state sanctioned murder controls crime OR is less expensive than keeping a lifer in lockup. All we have, and that is well witnessed here, is vengeance, retribution. Torches and pitchforks. Kill the beast!!

And the hypocrisy of the "all life is sacred" right is on full display.

aklim · #59 04-30-2014, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Oh I don't know. Why don't you ask one of these men. Maybe they can come up with an answer to satisfy your curiosity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates#2010.E2.80.932014

How did you repay them for the time lost?

aklim · #60 04-30-2014, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

I've read your position in several other death penalty threads. Correct me if I'm misreading it, but I believe your premise is that since there is no "just compensation" for being incarcerated, the death penalty superior?

First, there are few, if any, "just compensations." So, should any attempt at compensation or alternatives be dismissed? That makes less sense than the belief that being alive is not better than being wrongly executed.

Second, in the US legal system, economic compensation or consideration is pretty much all the system can award or enforce. While you may find that less than fulfilling, it's what we do.

Not exactly. There is no 'just compensation" regardless of punishment. End of story.

Didn't say it should be dismissed. The point is that no matter what, you cannot compensate for the mistake regardless of punishment.

Doesn't matter what the system used in any part of the world. Unless you can rewind time, you cannot repay in full.

Bottom line is you took something you can never repay whether you execute or not. Therefore, all you are doing is trying to get yourself to sleep better by not executing. By incarcerating them, you can toss them a few bucks so you can sleep better if there is a mistake. As the joke goes "We know you are a whore. We are just negotiating the price.".