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  #1  
Old 02-15-2001, 11:18 PM
Ashman's Avatar
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Well as you all know my dad's problems witht he dealer and his SL600. Now they are telling him that he neews a new tranny at $1700 for the tranny (reconditioned) then install as well.

They say the front pump in it has failed, and cannot be repaired.

Now here is the thing, they just changed the fluid and filter a few weeks ago and it was fine. and now the tranny is gone?

I suspect that they have done something wrong, like put in the worng fluid, let something into the engine lke metal shavings or something, or didn't put in enough tranny fluid. or something like that.

They may not be at fault here, but it seems very strange that this failure happens after he has the tranny fluid and filter changed, which took them 5 weeks to do in the first place.

I hate making assumptions, but I think the dealership is trying to rip him off, or they may have done something to his car in that 5 weeks. I'm not saying they did, but I feel like they did.

They also say it might need a new torque converter. at $3000 plus.

What the hell is going on here?

I'm calling MBUSA tomorrow to lodge a huge complaint.

The car has only 55k miles on it, and has not been driven much by my dad at all. he got the car a year an a half ago with 48k on the car, and has had it serviced meticulously...

What can cause the front trans pump to go out.

They just changed the fluid and filter 3 weeks ago.

What could cause this?

My dad does not drive the car hard at all, and has drivent it maybe 1200 miles since he got it back from the 5 week long 60k service they did, which he got the car back 3 weeks ago.

Please Advise, I'm ready to tear somone at the dealership a new one..

Also before you ask about warranty I have no idea, as far as I know the car does not have a starmark warranty as he bought it from a used car dealer that deals with mb's and other luxury cars.

Are there any service bulletins regarding his tranny having problems etc or is he looking at spending $4000 or more on a the repair?

Benzmac, Aaron, Steve, MB doc, Alain, And the rest of you guys, what do you think?

As you can see I'm pretty worked up by this, my father called me from a business trip to Mexico from his cell, to ask me to ask you guys what you think and what he should do and all.

Alon

[Edited by Ashman on 02-15-2001 at 10:29 PM]
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2001, 11:28 PM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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Go Ashman!!! Regulate. I really doubt the trans is bad at so few miles, as I'm sure you feel the same. I bet you the dealership is SCREWING with you big time. Did you dad notice any symptoms with the trans failing, or did the dealership just say that it was bad and need to be replaced? Regardless, I would definitaly call MBUSA and regulate!! Good luck with it all, please keep us posted on what happens.
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #3  
Old 02-15-2001, 11:33 PM
Ashman's Avatar
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He come home two nights ago, (Tuesday night)

Parked the car.

Came out the next morning to find every last drop of tranny fluid sitting on the driveway.

Says the tranny was shifting smooth and everything that night, and was fine when he got home that night.

But the next morning it was dry.

I checked the driveway, and there are no drips showing it was leaking when he parked it. The fluid starts from where his car was parked and flows out from there. the driveway was sloped a bit forward in that area so it ran to the end of the driveway, about 20 feet of fluid running including a big puddle under the car. Behind the car, no fluid or drips or anything.

He did not drive it even with the tranny fluid out, he had it towed immediately.

Alon
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2001, 11:35 PM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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When then what the hell?? Wouldn't the dealership just find the LEAK (no ****!) and solve the problem!??!!?!? I don't get it??? Are they stupid!!?? Or do they think You are stupid?!?!
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2001, 11:51 PM
Ashman's Avatar
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Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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no idea I just need to know whats up. they claim the front pump in the trans failed. They say they can't get to it so tranny needs to be opened and basically rebuilt, so they suggested a new (remanufactured) tranny, and said they wont know if the torque converter is shot until they pull the tranny, and if the torque converter is shot its an extra 3k plus.

So basically, he has no problem paying for the replacing of the tranny, but the extra expense of the torque converter makes it hard for him to agree with the diagnosis.

It makes no sense to me. In fact when he pulled in the driveway and stopped, put the car in park, the car was sounding normal and quite, then after like 30 seconds I suddenly heard what appeared to me as a low powersteering fluid level sound, the whining in the steering, which could have been the steering, or maybe it was his AC clicking on as he always has it running on Auto.

he was on the phone at the time, and had just pulled in and stopped the car and had it running while he was still on the phone.

i told him get the car looked at, it sounds like the power steering pump is making noise (he has had probs with power steering pump before...).

He got out, listened then shut off car and that was the end of it.

So now I need to know what I should do here, and what you guys think the problem is, what the symptoms sound like, what the costs sound like, and how something like this can fail, and ultimately is the dealership full of it.

Thanks,

Alon

hoping I don't have to raise some hell with MBUSA/the dealership...
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:04 AM
Jason M.
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Thats rough...

Alon,

It really sounds like they've done you a disservice. 5 weeks for transmission filter and fluid change? It should take at most a few hours (takes way less than that for our 300E's). In 5 weeks alot can happen. I would call MBUSA, I have found their customer service to be pleasant and helpful. As far as problems, I've heard that the 600's have a few, but this sounds like a case of negligence on the dealer's part. Good Luck and Stick it to 'em

Jason M.
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:10 AM
Ashman's Avatar
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Jason thanks for the reply. in the 5 weeks he had some other stuff fixed as well, so that was part of it.

If I let my imagination go, I see them having spent some time during the 5 weeks swapping his tranny for someone elses' bad tranny, but of course I do not think they are that shady or do those kinds of things because it has to take some seriously screwed up morals to do that kind of thing. but It has crossed my mind....

Alon
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:14 AM
Jason M.
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Alon,

If you suspect a shady swap, there should be matching VIN numbers on the Transmission and the Engine. If there arent.... well you get the general idea.

Jason <
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:38 AM
Ashman's Avatar
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hehe well I said it had crossed my mind, and yes vin numbers would be a sign of that and a way to detect it. I'm more concerned with the diagnosis of the problem.

I just don't like the fact that 2-3 weeks ago the trans was serviced and now it needs to be replaced according to them.

Alon
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:39 AM
dlswnfrd
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Worked up Ashman

Alon, I feel for your Father.
In my carrer with General Motors I was assigned to the Hydramatic Division for a few years.
I saw transmissions fail in minutes while being dyno tested. Then in the field in thousands of miles.
No one can predict how long a front pump will last, your Fathers may be one of the few in many thousands of transmissions.
I know you are trying to help your Father, but I truely believe a dealer would not do somethig so obvious as tampering to destroying a transmission. It just isn't worth it at the reputation of his business.
The transmission may have been on it's last breath when your Father bought his Benz. You said he didn't put many miles on it. That in it's self is what you should never do when you have purchased as used car. Get it out and shake it down.
There are transmissions as good as what is quoted to you and at considerable less money.
Adsit Co. Inc. 1-800-521-7656 has a sale on this month. Also http://www.adsitco.com Try them out, might help.
The best thing you can do to help your Father is to keep your Cool, don't put hard feeling into his head and the two of you get down on a very worthy Benz.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston!!!
Donald, El Cheapo
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2001, 01:57 AM
Ashman's Avatar
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Donald the only reason I think they have done something wrong is that the last time his car was there 3 weeks ago, they had it for 5 weeks to do a routine service and fix a few small things he wanted fixed.

He has no problems with replacing the tranny if need be and its cost. he does however have a problem with it when they tell him it might be an extra 3k or so for the torque converter.

They had the tranny pan off just 3-4 weeks ago and changed the fluid and filter. Now the trans is broken.

It just makes you think that maybe something was done wrong in the fluid and filter change.

Wrong fluid, wrong filter, not cleaning the gasket sealant all the way or leaving some in the pan to get mixed in. Anything of the sort like that might be a cause for the problem.

I am more concerned with their diagnosis than the repair itself.

It sounds very strange to em and to my father that a trans with such low mileage after just being serviced fails.

Somehow it just doesn't add up to a normal breakdown as there was a fluid change within weeks of the failure.

Hopefully someone can shed some light on whether this is a common failure, something very rare, and or something caused by negligence on the dealers part.

For instance maybe they did something that caused the premature failure on accident without knowing it.

My father is not in the best of health, so I have to help him out by dealing with certain stressful situations that could put him over the edge if he were to have to deal with it.

He is just concerned that something is not right with their diagnosis.

I think I will still talk to MBUSA about the matter to see if they can shed some light on why, how, and what could have caused this problem.

They may even be helpful enough to get the dealership down on the price or they might find flaws in the dealerships practices. You never know with these things, but I'd rather not hide in the corner, I want to speak out about it and let them know about it. It might be a fatal trans design flaw that caused it that is only showing after a few years. Maybe there is something in the pump that will fail after a few years. who knows.

These are the things I need to know, especially the how, when, what etc etc questions.

Alon
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2001, 11:17 AM
dlswnfrd
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ASHMAN

Strange things happen.
The frame of mind you are in and trying to be rational at the same time you are at wits end, doesn't help the matters any.
You need to drop back 10 yards before you punt.
Gather as much information as possible and corrilate your data, then approach the dealer for calm discussion.
Good luck, may you prevaile.
Happy Trails Bee Beep from Houston!!!
Donald, El Cheapo
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2001, 11:49 AM
Dr Parts
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Thats strange that they tell you that the whole transmisson has to be replaced for a front pump part number 1402700097 that is availble on fast lane and if its just the seal its 0109974947 and the oring in back of it is a 0169971448 all availble on fast lane. Its just a 722.362 tranmission.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:02 PM
MedMech
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MBUSA, if spoken to politly should help you out if not call a lawyer, I have found that paying $150 bucks for a letter can do amazing things. Also your Dad should call MB personally, no offense but they usually will be more receptive to the owner of the item. I used to cover these things for my Dad when I was in school and had decent success but in these cases, most generally they would deal with me, but a follow up by him would take care of the issue. You definitly should "step back 10 yards" and get your ducks in a row do a little leg work contacting previous owners, pulling a car fax ect. the dealer that sold the car should definitly be put under the microscope. But first because of your other problems MBUSA will help if you talk to them calmly. Remember to have all the Repair invoices and paper work with you when you call that is just good ammo Good luck
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2001, 12:28 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In the fog
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Don’t know if this has been mentioned but in the event it hasn’t, another form of research is to get the vehicle’s service history. Just about any MB dealer should be able to get this for you if you provide them with the VIN. In addition, you might send email to Benzmac, MBStars, Steve and perhaps other techs here to get an informal (and I emphasize informal) opinion. Lastly, take the car to another dealer for a second opinion.

Hope this helps….

…Tracy
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