Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 10-14-2002, 10:30 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,503
Without directly joining the fray, I'll toss in a couple of thoughts on the matter. Not all of Europe is grey, cold, and raining. Ever been to the South of Italy? It'll give the Southern U.S. a run for heat and humidity any summer. And of course, we all know they sell lots of big black Benzs down there.

As well, "driving" in Europe is more likely to mean stop & crawl city traffic than in the U.S. Population density in European cities is extremely high, and in many instances growth controls mean there are no suburbs. A good friend of mine performed a population density study on Munich for the purposes of planning wireless phone coverage. His finding was that density was constant (and very high) from the city center all the way to the edge, where it abruptly dropped to almost zero. Traffic followed essentially the same pattern.

One last comment, and this is perhaps the most significant. Japanese cars do not run with the engines at constant temperature. It is essentially impossible to build an automobile where the engine maintains a perfectly consistent temperature. Both the rate at which heat is removed (due to air flow across the radiator, temperature and humidity of that air, and coolant flow rate through the radiator) is highly variable, as well as the rate at which heat is produced, roughly corresponding to the work load of the engine.

What the Japanese have produced instead is an "idiot guage." The temperature guage in every Japanese branded car I can recall points at the same spot on the scale for all coolant temperatures between ~100F up to ~230F. Get yourself an infrared thermometer and see for yourself. (They're great toys, everyone should have one!) The guage points only to cold when the engine is stone cold and unable to provide any warmth via the heater. The guage points above normal only when the engine is about to overheat. Anything in between is considered normal and resolves to a single point on the guage.

So I see the matter not so much that Mercedes cannot design a good coooling system, but rather that many people have been "conditioned" by being fed false information. Mercedes is simply giving you a bit more information. The same issue is true of oil pressure guages - Mercedes gave up and eliminated it; Ford went to an idiot guage years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-14-2002, 12:07 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
David L: Sorry, don't know what you

are asking??
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-14-2002, 02:11 PM
Piotr's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Middletown, DE
Posts: 739
oooops, Iput my foot in it, did,t I? I do not suggest MB engineers do not make mistakes, merely that they had 50 years to correct the once they did make (or some of them). Essentially, all I wanted to say was that MB owners are , to phrase it gently, overly sensitive to the engine temps. As a couple people observed at this post, most cars have fluctuating engine temps. My wife's Stang has a temp gauge that says "H" on one end and "C" on other and a needle that bounces to and fro between these two upto 3/5 of the range of the read out.

When I bought my MB I thought I had a problem, but both my mech and the Stealer told me "as long as tempis not in the red, you're OK". I wasn't. The fan switch did not work. Were they deficient in their advice or simply tired of MB owners agonizing over their cars because "the engine is overheating! It's running at 95C instead of 92C!!"

I also do not proscribe to the believe that cooler is better. Every engine has a certain range of operating temperatures, and I would advise to check what they are before artificially lowering temperature of a cooling system operating perfectly within it's designed range.
__________________
1985 190D 2.2l Sold-to Brother-in-law
1996 Mustang 3.8l -"thinks it's a sports car"
1988 Grand Wagoneer - Sold (good home)
1995 Grand Cherokee Ltd -"What was I thinking??!!"
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-14-2002, 02:47 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
Well the misconceptions in operating engine

temperature is almost as bad as 'what af should I use' or 'what engine oil is best'?.

As JimSmith put it "80 to 87C is best". For my car, the CD-ROM says that all emissions, specs, etc. are met at an engine operating temperature of 80C or above.

Now using that as the demarcation line, how much above 80C is tolerable or wanted? We all know that at higher engine temps the timing is retarded so the higher it goes, the less efficient the car becomes!

Last month, my car needed a CA smog test. At the test, had the VFC mod running, my Cool Harness installed and 80C tstat. The engine temp (let it idle at the CA smog station w/ A/C on) was 88C. (A/C was shut off at test time).

Results:
RPM --- HC(ppm) ---- CO(%) ---- CO2(%) ---- O2(%)
650 ------ 2 --------- 0.00 --------- 5 -------- 1.9
2450 ----- 3 --------- 0.00 --------- 8 -------- 1.8

So the closer that you can hold the engine's operating temperature to "around" 80C, the better the car will run. Take that to the bank!
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Last edited by JimF; 10-15-2002 at 01:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-14-2002, 08:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 303
jim F

I read that your cool harness works for the later model cars..What would you recommend for the earlier models ie:r107( 560sl) or 123's (280 ce)?? would this harness work aswell?
__________________
a2


1978 280 CE silver
1986 560 SL black
1987 300 SDL cream
1994 SL 500 brilliant green
1997 E 300d dessert silver
2005 FORD F250 Superduty Crew cab 4x4

____ADMU____
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-14-2002, 08:39 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
a2aa, please send me email as shown on my page.
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-15-2002, 03:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 75
Cooling System


Im very interested in all these post to cooling issues. Would it be correct to assume that heat is the #1 enemy of your transmission. Living in South La is as close to tropical as your gonna in the lower 48. The other day, and it was only in mid 80's, while sitting for a long period of time I noticed the temp rose to 105. At what temp do the fans kick on. And I suppose as quite as it is in the cabin your not gonna hear it or feel it right? Are these tropical clutches and other items available over the internet? Would it be a no no to use something along the lines as Red Line Water Wetter Super Coolant when I do my coolant flush. I have a gallon of MB Coolant and plan to use distilled water as my mixer. I know there have been some post to the negativity with using distilled water. I asked the other day while at the dealership buying my MB Coolant and the shop techs said they just use the city water (tap). It is some of the softest water in the country. We dont have a lot of #1's here but the water and food are the best period. Thanks for all the info with the many post. Learn Learn Learn.

Keith D
__________________
1989 420SEL 105575 miles
Pearl Black/Grey

1990 Chevrolet E-Cab C-1500
293,000 miles

1989 Olds Toranado Trofeo'
132,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-15-2002, 06:58 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
Some answers to your questions . . .

1) Temp fans kick on: probably 105C. Probably will not hear them but should see the temp drop fairly rapidly.

2)VFC tropical: check this thread: High engine temps SOLVED! and this one: Tropical fan clutch really works

3) Water Wetter: check my page (www house below), menu #16. Distilled water with 40/60 MB AF/water is the 'best'.
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-15-2002, 07:08 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 303
JIMF

jim,

do you have a tropical version fan clutch for your 500 series engine???? If so, do you have the part #??
thanks
__________________
a2


1978 280 CE silver
1986 560 SL black
1987 300 SDL cream
1994 SL 500 brilliant green
1997 E 300d dessert silver
2005 FORD F250 Superduty Crew cab 4x4

____ADMU____
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-15-2002, 08:20 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
Please read this thread . . .

M119 Viscous Fan mod & problems with aux. fan resistor-mod

Basically, there's isn't one! Also read my page, menu #19 (for the VFC mod) and Menu #20 for test of a 'potential' tropical version.
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-15-2002, 08:35 PM
jsmith's Avatar
Ronin
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At Sea
Posts: 1,729
hi Jim,

i think you left off where you were looking for a source for the BMS material in the tropical clutches. any luck with that search?

i am shopping for one of those sachs trop. VFC's for my M104, taking my time since summer is a good long ways off. price quotes so far ranging from $75 in malaysia (haven't figured out how to get it here though) to $160 locally.

cheers
__________________
joE
1993 300e-2.8
- gone now <sigh>
"Do not adjust your mind, it's reality that's malfunctioning"
http://banners.wunderground.com/bann...L/Key_West.gif
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-15-2002, 08:59 PM
JimF's Avatar
'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,925
Well, yes there's a company. . .

in India that claims to be interested in building a 'tropical' bms for M119 engine but haven't heard from them in two months! So who knows? They have all of the 'specs' for the new bms.

You stand a good chance to get a tropical vfc for your M104 since it seems that there are actually some of those around. Let us know what happens.

If it works as well as Bong36, you will be happy.
__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-15-2002, 10:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 102
Jimf:

It appears you have mis-understood the concept of the relay. All the relay does is simulate the closing of the pressure switch on the receiver/dryer. Everything else in the car works just as it did out of the factory. So......if my relay ever fails, the car works just like it did when it was manufactired.

Several folks have mentioned cost. The total cost was $20.00 and a few hours on a Saturday.

I knew I was going to start a controversy, but all I was trying to do was post a a mod that some folks might find helpful. There are MANY posts dealing with the temps issue. I'm only trying to confine the temp fluctuations on MY car to a minimum. I have somewhat succeeded.

There's lots to learn about this beast, and thanks to the help of many members of this forum I've learned a tremendous amount. There is still much more to learn!!!!

A special thanks to stevebfl for his dissertation on the adjustment of fuel mixture. He has skillfully explained not just "how to", but the concepts behind the "how to". Due to his many patient explanations, I was able to adjust my fuel mixture to spec, as well as track down a nagging intermittent "high idle" problem to an apparent faulty temp sensor.

David Lee
__________________
92 300E - 116K miles - Sold
77 Euro 350SL - 67k miles
94 Explorer 147k miles
2009 Hyundai Genesis - 65k miles
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page