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Old 01-13-2003, 10:07 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 97
First B service this week. Anything special I should ask them to do?

It for a MY01 E430 with near 25k on the odo. I plan to ask them to pull the oil out the drain plug instead of fro the top. I also want them to give me a saple of the oil for analysis - to find out how much "protectability' the oil has left. First A service was at 13,060. Frankly, I'm impressed.
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Old 01-13-2003, 11:01 PM
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I moved this from the ML forum as it isn't an ML question.
On your Eclass, they should be able to change the oil like this no problem, on an ML it would present a small problem (big mess, soft bushings, etc). Of course they wouldn't "pull" the oil from the drain plug, they would just drain it.
Other than the possiblity that the car is over 2 years old (2001 built in late 2000 would now be 2 years old) and would then need a brake flush, you should be fine.

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Old 01-13-2003, 11:11 PM
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Thakks Jilly. I didn't know where to put that post

The car will be 2 years in September 2003 (based on purchase date, not built date), and I actually meant "drain" from the plug. Do they perform brake flush/coolant change after 2yrs, based on anufactured date or ownership date?

Also, do the brake pads start to go at 24K miles?
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Old 01-13-2003, 11:35 PM
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It's supposed to be by ownership date (warranty start date), but I go from the build date and never have a problem. The brake flush is every 2 years, the coolant is every 3 years.
Some dealers will tell you it's not included, this is FALSE, it is regularly scheduled maintenance and is included in the maintenance commitment plan. I wouldn't expect them to do the brake flush at this service, amybe the next service. You CAN'T bring it in at the "exact" 2 year interval just to have this done, it is done only with an FSS service, not on a seperate ticket, so you may run over on time just a bit.
The brake pads at 24K? maybe, varies alot depending on how the car is used.

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Old 01-14-2003, 08:21 AM
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 6,844
As to draining the oil on a ML, my guys have found a neat trick. One can take an old anitfreeze plastic container and cut it at about a 45deg angle. Place the bottle spout upside down and place the whole thing into the suspension about 5-10inches from the drain plug. When the plug is removed the oil jets almost horizontally into the side of the bottle and runs out the bottle's spout below the suspension vertically into a drain pan.

I was shown this when I decided to change my wifes oil myself. The tech sliced up the bottle in about ten seconds and not a drop got on the vehicle.

If you are servicing this car for yourself (not the owner it will have from 100k onward) I would suggest paying for an unrecorded oil change at half intervals. MB has already got in trouble for telling people they could drive that far with dino oil. The problems they were having are just put off by only changing to synthetic.

and... If you would like the transmission to go into the second k or beyond you better service it at some time also.

Since its highly unlikely that you will own the car that long, its risk free to use MB intervals.
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician
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Old 01-14-2003, 07:23 PM
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Location: So Cal
Posts: 124
Hi Gilly,
I have 2000 E430, When I had my car in for B service last April, the service advisor at Fletcher Jones Motor Car in Newport Beach CA said that brake flush is recommended to be done every 2 years, but it is not part of the "FSS Service", therefore it is not paid for by MBUSA. I called MBUSA and the answear I got is the same "MBUSA does not pay for brake flush and coolant change".
Free schedule services means only items included in the "FSS Service". Other MB dealers service managers may be able to talk to MBUSA to pay for these 2 services, but not Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach CA. When I bought this car for my wife in April 2000, the sale rep said that ALL schedule maintenances for 4 years/50k miles are covered by MBUSA. Only when I brought the car in for Service B 2 years later I found that was not true. Gilly, Do you have info that you can share so that I can contact to confirm that brake flush and coolant change are part of schedule maintenances and are covered by MBUSA. Your dealer may have better customer service and works harder to please your customers, but not my dealer.

Darkmann, I changed front brake pads twice at 22K miles, first front pads are changed at 10 K with Pagid, second pads with ATE at 22K, my car is about 31K miles now and I am going to change both front and rear nest week along with front rotors, front pads will be Axxis Deluxe Plus which is very low dust according to some experts in this forum, rear pads will be Pagid. Avoid ATE pads, specially the front, ATE pads generate a lot of dust and it eats rotors like Gremlin.

Have a good day.
'00 E430 Brilliant Silver/Ash
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Old 01-14-2003, 09:20 PM
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I would say that a dealer who does not see that these services (coolant and brake flushes) are part of the FSS service are not able to read the FSS sheets. It is all plain English that the Maintenance Commitment plan pays for all "regularly scheduled maintenance" during the warranty period. The brake and coolant flushes are "regular scheduled maintenance", but is based on TIME not mileage. If a FSS equipped car indicates that a FSS service is done, and a small "clock" emblem also appears, and the vehicle has gone very low amounts of miles, this is also based on TIME. The dealer should have no problem doing the entire A or B service based on TIME (it's 18 months, BTW). Then WHY don't they understand the basic concept that some services, such as the brake and coolant flushes, are included in Maintenance Commitment? In the labor time guide, they even have seperate entries for "brake fluid, repl, with maintenance work". That should be proof enough for them, WHY would they list a brake fluid replacement in the time guide WITH a warranty op code, stating "with maintenance work"? Because all Maintenance Commitment maintenance work is submitted as a warranty claim, and the brake and coolant flushes are part of it.
We have NO problem getting paid for these services by MB, the dealers in question should have their warranty clerks talk to their district rep (SPOM) about this. They are cheating their customers.
I'd like to add, as I have mentioned before, that the individual items can not be carried out seperately, in other word, you can't bring the car in JUST for a brake or fluid flush. It HAS to be done with an A or B service, so you may have to get it done a little late, I will sometimes jump ahead a month or two if it is "that" close to needing it done.
And a brief note: ALL work that is called for on the FSS maintenance sheet is paid for under warranty, including the brake and coolant flush. "Inspection" work that actually needs to be done is NOT, so if for example the sheet says to "check brake pads", the inspection of the pads is included. IF they are worn out, then it falls upon the owner to pay for the replacement of the pads.

Maintenance work that needs to be done at an interval of greater than 4yrs/50,000 miles is also obviously not included, for example the fuel and air filters at 60,000 miles is not included by the Maintenance Commitment plan as the car is out of warranty at 50,000 miles.

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Old 01-15-2003, 01:07 PM
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Location: So Cal
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Hi Gilly,
Thank you for your fast respond. You are right as ever. Everything you said in your post makes sense to me, but convincing my dealer, Fletcher Jones, that these two services, Brake Flushes with B servives at about 2 and 4 years, Coolant Flush with second A service at about 3 years are covered under regular scheduled maintenance during the 4 years and 50 K miles warranty, was not easy. Fletcher Jones service rep said only items in FSS section are covered, Coolant and Brake Flushes are in other recommended scheduled maintenance section, that are based on TIME, are not covered by MBUSA. I agree that they want to get paid for their services either by MBUSA or car owner. I will print your post and show them when I bring my wife 2000 E430 in next month for second A service, that these two services are covered under Maintenance Commitment plan, and MBUSA should pay for it and they should talk to their District Rep about this matter. I agreed that some wear items such as Brake Pads, Brake Disc, Tires, Headlight Bulbs ... are not covered under regular scheduled maintenance, and I paid for 2 Brake Pads at 10K and 22K and 4tires at 14K miles. The cost for these services, two Brake Flushes and one Coolant Flush in 4 years are not much, about $300 or less, but the feeling of being ripp-off is really bother me.

Again, thank you for your help and have a nice day.
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:34 PM
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 198
I would also asked to have the transmission fluid changed, not a requirement, but just good maintenace. timreid, enjoy your drive
1992 400E
euro lights
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Old 01-15-2003, 02:36 PM
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Location: So Cal
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Hi Timreid,
Thank you for your suggestion about Transmission Fluid change. But this Transmission is maintenance free for life, MBUSA does not pay for the fluid change. I will pay for changing Transmission Fluid every 50K miles and the first change will be in about a year and half.

I am allowed to enjoy the car only on weekend, my wife enjoys it on weekday. Sleeping in garage is not very enjoyable in the winter.

Have a nice day.
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Old 01-17-2003, 12:35 AM
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Well, I found 2 pieces of evidence that the brake and coolant flushes are included in the Maintenance Commitment plan.
The most important is from the MB Warrany Policy and Procedures Manual. Have the dealer look at page 3-33, in chapter 3-26.
It states:
"Any authorized Mercedes-Benz Center, passenger or light truck as applicable, in the United States and Puerto Rico will perform the maintenance services specified in the Mercedes-Benz Service Booklet (A and B maintenance services plus additional work required) at no expense to the owner."

To further clarify it, i also found an MB-NET administrative message, dated Nov. 10 1999, in regards to the Maintenance Commitment for model year 2000, it's message #00618, and states, in part:
"Additional work" performed as defined in the client's Service Booklet or the Service (Maintenance) Sheet for Flexible Service System should be included with the appropriate A or B Service as required. The additional work performed should not be submitted as a seperate claim(s) but included with the claim for the respective A or B service."

What that all means is the "additional work" is included, but you can't bring the car in for just the additional work, it has to be done at the same time as an A or B service, just as I said.

This message goes on to outline the coverage of the Maintenance Commitment plan, which is too lengthy to write out here. It lists what is done on an A and B service, and also lists "Additional Work to be performed together with Respective Service"
It lists:
Every 2 years:
-Replace brake fluid

Every 3 years:
-Replace coolant-water/anticorrosion/antifreeze mixture.

If I had a 2000 or newer Mercedes and paid for a brake or coolant flush (while the car was under warranty, assuming the dealer said "you need a brake or coolant flush, it's time for it"), I think I'd be asking for a refund.

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Old 01-17-2003, 11:50 AM
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Location: So Cal
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Thanks Gilly,
I will print your suggestions and show it to service manager at my dealer next month when I bring my wife 00 E430 in for second A service. I will insist that the service manager looks at MB Warrany Policy and Procedures Manual page 3-33 in chapter 3-26. Hope that this will clear up the confussion of who pay for these two services. I hate to argue about small change, but I hate it even more feeling about being cheated. I should stand my ground this time. I expected Used and/or low end car dealers cheat their customers whenever they have a change, but not MB dealer or MBUSA.

On second thought, I may contact other authorized MB dealers in Orange County to find out if they will do Brake Flush and Coolant change and charge these works to MBUSA for the 2000 car with less than 50K miles. If they do, I will buy my next car there.

Again, thanks for your help and have a nice weekend.
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Old 01-17-2003, 01:07 PM
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Location: Southern California
Posts: 373

FJ is my local dealer too, try a different service writer! I have been doing business with them since they were Jim Selmons and I know that all advisors are NOT the same. Some are definitely more customer service oriented and will fight to make it right for you.

Keep us posted, my coolant system is giving me trouble after my first A service at 2years and 11K miles. I'll back you up on a brake flush and coolant flush with the service mangers at FJ.
Ed "Don't Benz's just feel better..."

Current wives...
2000 ML430 Skyview "The Mel"
2000 CLK430 Cab "The Cab"
85 300D Turbo "The Diesel"

Past wives...
92 300E
85 190E

"One should as a rule respect public opinion in so far as is necessary to
avoid starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond
this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is likely to
interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
Bertrand Russell
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Old 01-19-2003, 02:41 AM
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Location: Mission Hills in the City of San Diego
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My family goes to Fletcher Jones as well. Most car repairs are done at an independent shop, however.

Who is your service advisor??

It is true, much of the problem may be within the "advisor."

Good luck.
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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Old 01-19-2003, 07:35 PM
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you don't think they're double-dippin' do ya?naaaaaaa!they wouldn't charge you and then bill mbusa for the same work.......... would they?sometimes i'm too cynical.sometimes i'm not too far of the mark.
'95 s500 (bought for wife but can't bear to share!!!) 125kms
'92 legend 180kms
'88 tbirdturbo(fantastic car-only regular maint.)120kms
'87 mustang gt(gone)
'86 tbirdturbo(gone)
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