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  #16  
Old 01-19-2003, 10:55 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 29
My suburban Philadelphia dealer (Devon) includes the brake flush at two year intervals and the 3 year coolant change was just completed at a B service under warranty. My service writer originally told me it was not included, but I went back with a print out of Gilly's prior writings on this subject, they researched it and from then on it was covered.
However, when my service writer was out, another service writer looked at me like he had never heard of the policy. It was my impression that all customers are not receiving this service under warranty unless they specifically request it.

For me it will be a moot issue as I am at the 47,900 mile mark.

Any idea how much I will be paying for these services when they become due again?

Glenn
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2003, 01:08 PM
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Location: Southern California
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Daddio,

I'm a conspiracy guy too... I have seen some questionable things going on!

But, if DC is as mismanaged as they have been, perhaps the dealers realized they could get away with it.

JMHO
__________________
Ed "Don't Benz's just feel better..."

Current wives...
2000 ML430 Skyview "The Mel"
2000 CLK430 Cab "The Cab"
85 300D Turbo "The Diesel"

Past wives...
92 300E
85 190E

"One should as a rule respect public opinion in so far as is necessary to
avoid starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond
this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is likely to
interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
Bertrand Russell

Last edited by ML Dude; 01-20-2003 at 03:19 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2003, 02:45 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 124
I think the problem with "Free Schedule Maintenance" for 2000 and newer cars is MBUSA does not very clear about Brake Flush and Coolant Change are free of charge to the owner and should only performed with either A or B service. Fletcher Jones and other MB dealers want to get paid for their works, warranty or not. If they think MBUSA does not pay for these two services then they demands we pay for it.

I do NOT think FJ would double charge, car owners and MBUSA, for the same work, specially for such small amount. I had different service writer each time I brought the car in for service. I will try to talk to service manager next time when I bring my wife car in for second A service in about 2 months. I will show him Gilly's comments to see how it will be. I had Gilly's opinion about these services and showed it to service writer on April 2001 when I had the car in for B service, but he said "No, MBUSA only pay for items specified in FSS A and B services. Brake Flush and Coolant Change are not part of A and B services, therefore not covered by MBUSA". I did not press further because I felt "cheap" to fight for such small change. But I will press harder the next time because I do not want to be cheated.

When I bought the car in April 2000, I thought that if we drive 12,000 miles a year, we will have 2 brake flushes and 1 coolant change within 4 years and 50,000 warranty paid for by MBUSA. Actually, the car is priced to includes these cost and we pay for it when we bought the car. The problem of who pays for these two services is clearly with MBUSA, that is my opinion.

I am thinking about buying Motive power bleeder and ATE super blue to flush the brake one a year myself.
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  #19  
Old 01-20-2003, 03:01 PM
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Location: Southern California
Posts: 373
HTN,

I had to replace the brake pads on my ML at 10K miles. They had started to squeak and FJ told me the pads were gone. I said to them that based on my driving habit and how the truck was used that there must be some malfunction for my pads to be 80% gone!

Since these are not warranty items but the vehicle was under 2yrs old and only 10K, they did a good will for me 75/25. When I came in to get my truck, I expected a nominal charge $50-75. After all this was pads only with R&R, no rotors no fluid(I'll check on that). My bill was $196, when I questioned them on this being an accurate 25% charge, they said yes. That means they would charge $695 for a brake pad replacement, wow! Was that some double dipping or just pricey service?

I could tell you about an electrical problem that they believed was my battery. I saw MBUSA billed three times for a new battery and I'm certain that one time, they left my old one in. Who am I to question what they can get away with....

Check Larry Bible's website, he has an interesting option for you for doing your brake fluid....sounds like the DIY route might be best but both fluids in question are toxic so be careful.
__________________
Ed "Don't Benz's just feel better..."

Current wives...
2000 ML430 Skyview "The Mel"
2000 CLK430 Cab "The Cab"
85 300D Turbo "The Diesel"

Past wives...
92 300E
85 190E

"One should as a rule respect public opinion in so far as is necessary to
avoid starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond
this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is likely to
interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
Bertrand Russell

Last edited by ML Dude; 01-20-2003 at 03:23 PM.
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2003, 03:06 PM
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Location: Evansville WI
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Quote:
I think the problem with "Free Schedule Maintenance" for 2000 and newer cars is MBUSA does not very clear about Brake Flush and Coolant Change are free of charge to the owner
I disagree, MB is very clear in the warranty P&P manual that these additional items are included in the Maintenance Commitment plan. It took me less than 15 minutes to find documentation to support this, and in fact could have been substantiated by looking in your own owners packet (Maintenance Book and Warranty Book).
The service advisor(s) in question need to pull their head out of, um, the sand, and check the facts.

Quote:
I had Gilly's opinion about these services and showed it to service writer on April 2001 when I had the car in for B service, but he said "No, MBUSA only pay for items specified in FSS A and B services.
I can't "make" him understand. If he would check the supporting documents, he will see he is wrong. I would encourage you to contact his supervisor and get this straightened out. He is probably doing this on a daily basis. Please let me know if you are willing to do this. If not I will try to contact this dealership myself. Maybe you can just forward this entire thread to the dealership.

Gilly
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  #21  
Old 01-20-2003, 05:38 PM
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Location: So Cal
Posts: 124
Hi Gilly,
Thank you for your time in clarifying this matter. It may be clear to you that these two services are included in the Maintenance Commitment Plan and paid for by MBUSA because you are customer oriented and willing to spend some minutes to do reseach. The service writers at FJ do not want to spend any extra minute to read these manuals or contact District Rep for these small changes.
If NOT all customers who purchase 2000 or newer car are receiving these services under warranty, then whose fault is it? Most buyers of $50K+ car
do not like to argue about $50 brake fluid change, myself included, if we do not 100% sure that these charges would be paid by MBUSA.

NOW, I am 100% sure that these services are cover under "Regular Recommended Maintenant". I WILL talk to service manager at FJ to straighten this thing, I will print this entire thread and bring with me when I talk to him. I will post the result later.

MLDude, I agree that all car's fluids are toxic, I am alway very careful when I do anything under the hood and I always dispose those fluids at recycle centers. I have warranty works at FJ, all other works are done by myself if I have time and if it is easy DIY jobs. Otherwise, I bring all my cars to an independent shop in Garden Grove. I saw Larry Bible's website about brake bleeder, it is too complicated for me to duplicate it, and the price of Motive Power Bleeder is only about $45 and has very good reviews by someone in this forum.

It is sunny and warm in Southern California.

Thanks all.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2003, 02:57 PM
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Location: So Cal
Posts: 124
The new service advisor at FJ agreed to do brake flush and colant change on my '00 E430 without charging me for the works, he said these works are covered by 4years/50k miles maintenance commitment plan by MBUSA.

ML Dude,
The service advisor also quote me the cost for both front and rear pads and front rotors at $560,
tax included. He name is Larry Crecelius, he is better than all other service advisors I had seen at FJ the last 3 years.
I am thinking about buying all parts at FastLane and do it myself or have my indy do it, this way I will save $250 or more.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2003, 04:48 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 97
That Brake Flush Service Controversy

Gilly, I called MBUSA today to clarify this. They told me clearly that the brake flush is not included in the 4yr/50K MB warranty service - at least in the US. It's probably different elsewhere. I see you have gone in details to show that it's included. Do you know if there's a clause regarding US registered MB cars?
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  #24  
Old 03-12-2003, 06:10 PM
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Location: So Cal
Posts: 124
Hi Darkmann,
I had the same answear from MBUSA when I called them last year before I had service B done at FJ dealer in Newport Beach, CA. This time I did not bother to call MBUSA for clarification. I print Gilly writting in this topic to bring with me to show to service advisor. But I did not need to show the new guy any of Gilly opinions, he told me MB pays for these brake and coolant flushes at 2-3 years interval as recommented if the car is in for either service A or B when I asked him who will pay for it.
The best way for you is to print Gilly writing in this topic to show to your service advisor at your dealer along with Maintenance and Warranty Booklets in your owner packet. You should read these 2 books, then you will have a good understanding about MB Maintenance Commitment plan.
If you like to have a copy of my receipt that shows no charge for brake flush and coolant change, give me your fax number by PM, I will fax it to you to show it to your dealer. I am supporting you in demanding that MB should stand behind their commitment.
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  #25  
Old 03-12-2003, 06:43 PM
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Location: Evansville WI
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Darkmann
The rep you talked to at MBUSA is dead WRONG about this.
As a matter of fact, I can't talk knowledgeably about all the countries MB sells vehicles in, but I do know that there is NO Maintenance Commitment Plan in Canada (MB Canada).
We had one customer who lives here in the US, but bought an ML that was originally sold in Canada, and we could NOT do any free services to the truck, even though we could do normal warranty repairs on it, because the Maintenance Commitment Plan wasn't part of the deal in Canada.

Gilly
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  #26  
Old 03-12-2003, 08:12 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 373
Well,

This is getting interesting....the answer you get depends on who you call...hmmm.

If calling MBUSA means calling 1800FORMERC then I know for myself that is a waste of time. They are not only uninformative but curt and rude, it left me with a bad taste and I'm a loyal customer. If I was thinking about Japanese alternatives that would have pushed me toward sushi!

Now I'm curious why one service writer says a complete brake job is $565 when I'm quoted $695 for pad replacement alone.

Sounds fishy doesn't it? Anyway, I told FJ they would not be seeing any brake work from me at those prices. I concur with going to an indy or diy

All the best!
__________________
Ed "Don't Benz's just feel better..."

Current wives...
2000 ML430 Skyview "The Mel"
2000 CLK430 Cab "The Cab"
85 300D Turbo "The Diesel"

Past wives...
92 300E
85 190E

"One should as a rule respect public opinion in so far as is necessary to
avoid starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond
this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is likely to
interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
Bertrand Russell
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  #27  
Old 03-12-2003, 11:48 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally posted by HTN-E430
Hi Darkmann,
I had the same answear from MBUSA when I called them last year before I had service B done at FJ dealer in Newport Beach, CA. This time I did not bother to call MBUSA for clarification. I print Gilly writting in this topic to bring with me to show to service advisor. But I did not need to show the new guy any of Gilly opinions, he told me MB pays for these brake and coolant flushes at 2-3 years interval as recommented if the car is in for either service A or B when I asked him who will pay for it....
Thanks HTN-E430 for the information. Also, thanks Gilly. You're right and when I'm due for service, I'll use your reference document and my maintenance manual as HTN suggests. ML Dude, I did call the 1-800-FOR-MERC, and like you noted, their knowledge is quite limited. Now I'm armed to the teeth about this.
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2003, 11:55 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally posted by gillybenztech
Darkmann
The rep you talked to at MBUSA is dead WRONG about this.
As a matter of fact, I can't talk knowledgeably about all the countries MB sells vehicles in, but I do know that there is NO Maintenance Commitment Plan in Canada (MB Canada).
We had one customer who lives here in the US, but bought an ML that was originally sold in Canada, and we could NOT do any free services to the truck, even though we could do normal warranty repairs on it, because the Maintenance Commitment Plan wasn't part of the deal in Canada.

Gilly
Interesting Gilly. Remember when I started this thread I was asking for suggestions on what xtras to ask during the "B" service on my E Class. The service was done mid January at 24,490 miles with 1000 left on the FSS schedule. The car will be two years (based on ownership) in September 2003. I hadn't looked at the work order until earlier today. Turns out that the brake fluid flush was done as part of the "B" service. You were absolutely correct. What was surprising is that they did the coolant service and replaced the air and fuel filters also. The biggest surprise of all is that they replaced the spark plugs also. I thought that was mighty generous - unless they found codes that directed them to do so.

But to your point, the brake flush and cooland service ar part of the MB commitment and are free (US only) as long as they are performed as part of either the "A or "B" service.
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  #29  
Old 03-17-2003, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 124
Hi Darkmann,

Your dealer was very generous in doing all these services way ahead of recommended maintenance schedule by MB. Air and fuel filters are scheduled to be replaced at 4 years, spark plugs at 100k miles. Unless the code(s) tells them to do so, they may have to pay for all those extra services to make you happy. I will ask my dealer to change air and fuel filters at the second B service next year, they might do it without charging me if I ask them nicely
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  #30  
Old 03-17-2003, 07:37 PM
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Posts: 97
Absolutely!!! Unless they just checked every box in my service

manual as a force of habit. I doubt that though. The car drove extremely well - but like you said, there could've been some code or something else. But they've been quite generous to me in other respects also.
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