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  #61  
Old 04-07-2015, 01:59 AM
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this is very interesting....... i appreciate your work.......

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  #62  
Old 04-07-2015, 09:39 AM
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So one thing I did since switching to HPR is I advanced the injection pump as far as it would go. It was already advanced a few degrees prior to this. I have no idea how far the stock slots in the OM603 allows it to go. It sounds slightly more diesely at idle but still not as loud as #2 diesel. Debating doing the same on the slow as death 97 E300 non turbo.

So far since switching to HPR my fuel consumption has been 35.6, 35.7 and 33.5mpg (2300 miles driven) which is the low end of my long term fuel consumption but I have been doing a lot more short trips than I used to. According to Neste Oil's data, advanced timing can make up for the lower BTU of renewable diesel. We'll see about that but that. The benefits of this fuel far outweigh any lost in fuel economy.
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  #63  
Old 04-07-2015, 12:27 PM
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Does anyone know the BTU difference between HPR and #2? I haven't seen anything...
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  #64  
Old 04-07-2015, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renaissanceman View Post
Does anyone know the BTU difference between HPR and #2? I haven't seen anything...
Don't know BTU but heres MJ/L for HVO, diesel and biodiesel (FAME). You should be able to derive BTU from that.


34.4MJ = 32604BTU x 3.78 = 123,243 BTU/GALLON for HPR.

According to Wiki #2 ULSD is 129,500 BTU/GALLON.
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  #65  
Old 04-08-2015, 12:51 AM
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Well, I ran HPR in my 1985 300d turbo diesel, car ran like crap, hiccuped on acceleration and the idle was real shaky. Then I filled with B99 and the engine ran perfect, no shakes. I then used diesel purge and the engine is was still smooth. I ran the tank dry, literally, the engine died. I then filled up with HPR, and my engine runs just like the first time, shaky, not smooth on acceleration, it misfires/sputters then smooths out. So the car still doesn't like the new HPR fuel. I am getting new injectors, so i'll try HPR one more time. Maybe the worn injectors and the HPR don't mix very well. So I guess I'll continue to use D2, this fuel runs smoother and no sputtering.
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  #66  
Old 04-08-2015, 01:10 AM
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So what's the count now, two 617's that don't like it and one that does?

The replacement washer that I put on my clear line from the fuel filter housing to the IP several days ago is now leaking just a little bit. I'm having a hard time believing that all of this is coincidental to my recent use of HPR. I visited the tdiclub forum and several guys have reported HPR leaking out of their IPs. A lot of VW TDI owners had that problem when the ULSD came out so I'm not surprised.
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  #67  
Old 04-08-2015, 11:48 AM
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I've been running the HPR in my second tank with absolutely no problems.

ffgb--I have Greazzer, who has a good reputation on this site, rebuild my injectors. Also try changing your fuel filters. The B99 is going to loosen
a bunch of stuff & clog those filters.

Just did a 200 mile trip for Easter, mainly on WVO &
the car ran very smooth on both fuels.

Jeff
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  #68  
Old 04-08-2015, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto huber View Post
The replacement washer that I put on my clear line from the fuel filter housing to the IP several days ago is now leaking just a little bit. I'm having a hard time believing that all of this is coincidental to my recent use of HPR. I visited the tdiclub forum and several guys have reported HPR leaking out of their IPs.
Hard to imagine that fuel could cause a leak past a metal washer, unless it cleaned off gunk that was helping it seal or such.

I visited the VW TDI site and some people did experience leaks from rubber seals in the IP pump or top of injectors after switching to Diesel HPR, but the consensus is they would have experienced the same had they switched from bio-diesel to regular diesel. The thought is that the biodiesel was swelling their old seals, allowing them to seal and anything else would let the seals relax. Below is a quote from the site:

"I think the IP seal leaks have more to do with the low aromatics (similar problem with ultra low sulfur diesel), when switching from higher concentration biodiesel."

The only rubber seals I know of in my 84 & 85 300D are on the low-pressure side, upstream of the IP (lift pump, hoses, fuel filter gasket). I have never run bio-diesel.
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  #69  
Old 04-08-2015, 11:27 PM
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Rooster300sd-I have changed the fuel filters right before I used the HPR the first time. A couple of miles driving with the HPR is when I noticed the lack of power, hiccup, rough idling. So then I changed the fuel filters again thinking they were clogged. There was no change. After all the HPR was used, I then filled my tank with B99 and within a few miles, the idle was now smooth, no hiccups, awesome power! I then ran that tank of B99 almost dry before I filled up with HPR again and again changed out the fuel filters and again, within a few miles, hiccuping, rough idle, no power. Now this is the 2nd time using HPR and same results as the 1st. When my fuel tank had 1/4 left of HPR, I filled with D2 and didn't change my fuel filters. Within a few miles of D2, the idle was smooth, no hiccups, and the power is back! I would love to use HPR but for some reason it doesn't work well with my motor. I am getting my injectors serviced by greazzer with some Bosio nozzles in the next couple of days. So after when I get my new injectors, I will try HPR again, hopefully with better results!
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  #70  
Old 04-09-2015, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffgb View Post
Rooster300sd-I have changed the fuel filters right before I used the HPR the first time. A couple of miles driving with the HPR is when I noticed the lack of power, hiccup, rough idling. So then I changed the fuel filters again thinking they were clogged. There was no change. After all the HPR was used, I then filled my tank with B99 and within a few miles, the idle was now smooth, no hiccups, awesome power! I then ran that tank of B99 almost dry before I filled up with HPR again and again changed out the fuel filters and again, within a few miles, hiccuping, rough idle, no power. Now this is the 2nd time using HPR and same results as the 1st. When my fuel tank had 1/4 left of HPR, I filled with D2 and didn't change my fuel filters. Within a few miles of D2, the idle was smooth, no hiccups, and the power is back! I would love to use HPR but for some reason it doesn't work well with my motor. I am getting my injectors serviced by greazzer with some Bosio nozzles in the next couple of days. So after when I get my new injectors, I will try HPR again, hopefully with better results!
In the Neste documentation on page 1 of this thread they warn against mixing HVO and biodiesel. It doesn't mix as well as regular diesel and can cause solids to precipitate out of the biodiesel. Even tho you ran down as close to empty as possible, theres got to be some mixing going on in your tank. Both you and rooster have run some form of biodiesel or WVO through the fuel system. Maybe try running a couple of tanks of regular #2 diesel to flush the fuel system before switching from biodiesel to HPR vice versa.
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  #71  
Old 04-09-2015, 12:04 PM
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tjts1-The only fuel I ever used before I used the HPR for the first time was D2. When I had the B99 in, I ran that until the the engine died. My car wouldn't start because the tank was empty so I had a jug of Diesel Kleen in the trunk that I used to limp the car to the Propel Station. I think on the Neste site, it states to not use more than 7% biodiesel to Renewable Diesel. I want to say after I filled up with HPR to the top of the filler neck, I had less than 1% of B99 in the tank, the prior B99 that was in there mixed with the Diesel Kleen and was consumed while I limped to Propel Station. I understand about the mixing with HPR and Biodiesel, but I don't think that was the issue here. I honestly think it has to do with the injection timing. I think after I get my injectors serviced and the timing chain replaced so the injection timing is closer to factory spec, then I will be able to use HPR. I only get the hiccuping at idle and misfiring when I initially accelerate, it then smooths out at around 2.5-3K rpm when turbo boost starts to build. On the freeway, the HPR runs good at higher rpms.
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  #72  
Old 04-09-2015, 01:54 PM
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I tried two tanks of this HPR stuff.

At first, thought something else was wrong since the idle was smoother.

Seems like a little more power and quicker to 80mph. (hey, any notice of fractional power increase is apparent in a 240d/automatic)

No decrease in mileage.

Nothing wrong here...
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  #73  
Old 04-09-2015, 02:21 PM
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I'm nearly 200 miles into my first full tank, and I love it! No smoke on cold startup, even with 1 dead glow plug...usually it smokes and coughs for 10 seconds.
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  #74  
Old 04-09-2015, 02:55 PM
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I should also have mentioned that a few years ago, I increased the injection injection timing in both my 1984 & 1985 300D from the factory (~24 deg BTDC) to ~27 deg BTDC, using the "start of delivery" method, by rotating the top of the IP slightly closer to the block. I couldn't judge it closer than +/-1 deg. That was with D2. It was supposed to increase performance and mileage slightly, at the expense of increased roughness at idle, but I can't say I noticed a difference in either.

The earlier timing is supposed to help w/ Diesel HPR, so that could be another factor. If ffgp's timing is still at the factory 24 deg BTDC, then I doubt it would be noticeable. But, if his timing had drifted near borderline, say 20 deg, then HPR might push it "over the edge". I expect that IP timing would grow more delayed as chains wear, but don't know.
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  #75  
Old 04-09-2015, 04:12 PM
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ffgb--let us know how things are after the injector swap.

Jeff

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