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  #31  
Old 08-28-2011, 10:55 PM
Zacharias's Avatar
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Location: West Quebec
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Update:

1. Drove car with mityvac hooked up to modulator valve line. Pumped to various vacuum readings. No shifting.

2. Measured vacuum coming from T fitting out of main line, over to vacuum switch on VC. Only 15 in/hg.

3. Gently enlarged opening in T fitting. No difference.

4. Switched line to VC switch to supply it from the second fitting, which normally supplies rest of vacuum lines. It reads about 20. No difference.

5. Finally switched over modulator from spare transmission. Still no change. QUESTION: I read several posts on pulling the modulator and none of them said a word about the modulator being in contact with transmission fluid. When I pulled mine I got over a litre of leakage. Is this normal?

I'm about done with it... I think this treasure hunt is officially done.

Thanks to all who assisted.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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  #32  
Old 08-29-2011, 04:21 AM
Stretch's Avatar
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Shame it isn't working out.

I'm pretty sure that these transmissions don't shift "on the vacuum" I think the vacuum still does the same job as other transmissions... these 722.118 transmissions just have extra bits in the valve body that do the job of the regulating pressure lever that would normally be poking out of the casing close to the B3 (reverse) brake band piston housing.

If you are willing to sit back and take a coffee break for the next few days then I really will have some good pictures to show you along with a write up for the rebuild of these transmissions...

...you could then decide whether you want to pull out the valve body (and with the safety of the pictures I'll post - which have been checked against 2 valve bodies!) clean it all up a bit.

I'm sorry for the delay. I've been meaning to get this DIY done for a long time now. It has turned into an automotive version of War and Peace. Brevity is not really something I do.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #33  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:47 PM
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Posts: 2
Clean the govenor

Hello all,
First post as I could not contain myself from suggesting that the OP should clean the govenor.I bought a w126 last winter with the exact symptoms
and this cured it completely.It is under a round easy to remove cover at the
rear of the transmission and can be done on the car.You will need to support the transmission as you loosen the driveshaft and remove the rear mount and maybe a cross member.This allows you to shift it over for a bit of clearance.
There will be a latch of some kind holding it in place so it will not come out as
until that is loosened. I saw two different styles in the 722.3 manual.You should not loose any significant fluid either so it is rather dry operation.
Soak it in solvent even if it seems clean.Then blow it dry.
I used a mixture of ATF and acetone and some marvel mystery oil for good measure.It did move before I soaked it but it moved easier after!
Apparently it was enough to keep the upshift from happening.The manuals list the govenor as a possible cause of " no upshift".

Good luck
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  #34  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:45 PM
1980-300D(bio)'s Avatar
BioDiesel Nerd
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: california
Posts: 40
If you had paid a little attention to the link I shared....

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/1597891-diy-w123-transmission-diagnose-adjustment-722-a.html

Now at this point you have messed so much with it that its probably not worth to try fixing, plus you are already frustrated.
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  #35  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:04 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1980-300D(bio) View Post
If you had paid a little attention to the link I shared....

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/1597891-diy-w123-transmission-diagnose-adjustment-722-a.html

Now at this point you have messed so much with it that its probably not worth to try fixing, plus you are already frustrated.
This is a great source of information but the problem I have with it is that it is a bit too much information! I know I'm guilty of doing the same thing (giving too much information) but which bits do you feel would help the OP fix the problem?

I'm still not 100% sure of the symptoms the OP has with his transmission - but may be you have a better understanding...

...I would like to see this problem sorted out as I guess I'll be in the same boat when I get my car back together.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #36  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:06 AM
Stretch's Avatar
...like a shield of steel
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by skizikz View Post
Hello all,
First post as I could not contain myself from suggesting that the OP should clean the govenor.I bought a w126 last winter with the exact symptoms
and this cured it completely.It is under a round easy to remove cover at the
rear of the transmission and can be done on the car.You will need to support the transmission as you loosen the driveshaft and remove the rear mount and maybe a cross member.This allows you to shift it over for a bit of clearance.
There will be a latch of some kind holding it in place so it will not come out as
until that is loosened. I saw two different styles in the 722.3 manual.You should not loose any significant fluid either so it is rather dry operation.
Soak it in solvent even if it seems clean.Then blow it dry.
I used a mixture of ATF and acetone and some marvel mystery oil for good measure.It did move before I soaked it but it moved easier after!
Apparently it was enough to keep the upshift from happening.The manuals list the govenor as a possible cause of " no upshift".

Good luck
Hi skizikz...

...and welcome to the forum...

The OP has a 722.1 transmission. The governor is not as accessible on this transmission as it is on a 722.3
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #37  
Old 08-30-2011, 11:47 AM
1980-300D(bio)'s Avatar
BioDiesel Nerd
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: california
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
This is a great source of information but the problem I have with it is that it is a bit too much information! I know I'm guilty of doing the same thing (giving too much information) but which bits do you feel would help the OP fix the problem?

I'm still not 100% sure of the symptoms the OP has with his transmission - but may be you have a better understanding...

...I would like to see this problem sorted out as I guess I'll be in the same boat when I get my car back together.
post # 1 is pretty simple to understand. Pretend to understand how the tranny works in a single day is just funny. It will take more reading than hands on, because the fix will probably be simple when you know how to find it. Otherwise, what happened in this thread is a good example of "building a house starting from the roof".

There is an "order" to do tranny diagnose, doing it backwards will probably fail or make it worse and more difficult to detect. Not to mention the waste of time and frustration.

I wrote that hoping to give others a guide to be able to diagnose properly.
Govert and me are there to answer questions, but first give us symptoms and what you have done from the listed procedures in post #1.

I hope we can figure the easiest way to improve shifting.

Last edited by 1980-300D(bio); 08-30-2011 at 12:31 PM.
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  #38  
Old 08-31-2011, 01:32 PM
Zacharias's Avatar
Not so amused
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Quebec
Posts: 4,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1980-300D(bio) View Post
If you had paid a little attention to the link I shared....

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/1597891-diy-w123-transmission-diagnose-adjustment-722-a.html

Now at this point you have messed so much with it that its probably not worth to try fixing, plus you are already frustrated.
That last sentence is snide, inaccurate and unnecessary. Given the general tenor of this board, it's waaaay out of line.

I did my best to plow through the collection of material in that link. I appreciate you spent some time collating an online brick of material on transmission issues for the benefit of others. However, throwing brick-links out then yelling "fetch" does not constitute constructive input.

I see nothing in your link that advances the knowledge base on troubleshooting the vacuum-control-only transmission.

FYI I have done everything on your list of items to be checked, aside from messing with the VCV on the IP. I did look at that link and in the first few lines Greg states what that VCV troubleshooting is for, and it has nothing to do with the issues I am experiencing.

Oh and yes I only changed the fluid, not the filter. That was a matter of circumstances on a particular day. Though at this point I feel it's heroic measures, I will be happy to do so at first opportunity if anyone truly believes it will make a rat's butt of difference here....

I welcome any and all constructive input, but anything else can be kept to one's self.
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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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  #39  
Old 09-01-2011, 01:21 AM
1980-300D(bio)'s Avatar
BioDiesel Nerd
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: california
Posts: 40
Q: That last sentence is snide, inaccurate and unnecessary. Given the general tenor of this board, it's waaaay out of line.

O.K. I'm sorry you feel that way, I wasn't trying to hurt ur ego or feelings. I get that it could be read with different tones. Didn't think in reading it with a "jerk" tone. I wrote without thinking in the possibility of been sort of offensive. My apologies.

If you don't mind... who is Greg? what does "fetch" means?
Thanks.

-----
edit: LOL! never mind, I found "fetch" meaning:

"fetch :

Adj. Variation and shortening of the word 'fetching'. Used to describe something cool and trendy. General usage by females, teeny-boppers. You can almost hear it replied with "Like, totally!" Coined by the movie 'Mean Girls'.


"That new store, Siblings, is SO fetch!"
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  #40  
Old 09-01-2011, 02:08 AM
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Posts: 33
Ok just to inform all here. I have a 722.1 in my Sd. The only things hooked to it is the electronic kick down and the shifter and speedo cable. I have to manually up shift it if I don't want to shift at 2k every gear but everything works. No flairing at all. I do have harsh shifts and I'm keeping it that way to help keep the thing alive for a bit.

There is one thing I have noticed though. When my trans is hot ~200° and I floor it off the line (on the kick down button) it sometimes will not shift till 6000rpm.

So I'll get into my book tomorrow and find what is actuated for each gear. I still have a broken 722.1 that I'll dig through and see what I can come up with personally.
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  #41  
Old 09-01-2011, 03:41 AM
Stretch's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselboy740 View Post
Ok just to inform all here. I have a 722.1 in my Sd. The only things hooked to it is the electronic kick down and the shifter and speedo cable. I have to manually up shift it if I don't want to shift at 2k every gear but everything works. No flairing at all. I do have harsh shifts and I'm keeping it that way to help keep the thing alive for a bit.

There is one thing I have noticed though. When my trans is hot ~200° and I floor it off the line (on the kick down button) it sometimes will not shift till 6000rpm.

So I'll get into my book tomorrow and find what is actuated for each gear. I still have a broken 722.1 that I'll dig through and see what I can come up with personally.
I think harsh shifts will eventually result in this sort of damage

722.118 Transmission problems, stripped out splines!

Advice req'd:- shaft spline wear / measurements / possible fix 722.118 transmission

I don't know for sure but I've got a pretty good idea that the splines on the front planet gear system (and probably also on the middle planet too) just aren't up to the job...

As for data for shifting take a look at the information that is compiled over on Benz World =>

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/1597891-diy-w123-transmission-diagnose-adjustment-722-a.html

@Zacharius => The most recent posts might help see post #20 made by 1980-300D(bio) for example
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2011, 12:01 PM
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Not so amused
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
@Zacharius => The most recent posts might help see post #20 made by 1980-300D(bio) for example
Possibly, but I've already arranged to install another transmission. I have lots of other issues to deal with, on this car, and I am working outside with likely 4-6 weeks' possibility of decent weather left before it gets too cold and damp to work outside for someone with arthritis.

I commend your interest in getting to the bottom of this. But apart from all else, I frankly would rather have a transmission in the car that the community in general is more familiar with.
__________________


Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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  #43  
Old 09-02-2011, 03:22 PM
Stretch's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post
Possibly, but I've already arranged to install another transmission. I have lots of other issues to deal with, on this car, and I am working outside with likely 4-6 weeks' possibility of decent weather left before it gets too cold and damp to work outside for someone with arthritis.

I commend your interest in getting to the bottom of this. But apart from all else, I frankly would rather have a transmission in the car that the community in general is more familiar with.
Good point.

I'll try and change that though!

Take some pictures of your fun in the last of the sun for this year...
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #44  
Old 09-03-2011, 10:06 AM
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Posts: 2
"The OP has a 722.1 transmission. The governor is not as accessible on this transmission as it is on a 722.3 "

AHH, So it is a tear down?
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  #45  
Old 09-04-2011, 01:27 PM
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Not so amused
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Quebec
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Wherein I eat crow. Umm UMMM TASTY (NOT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post
But apart from all else, I frankly would rather have a transmission in the car that the community in general is more familiar with.
Fate is not without a sense of humour, apparently.

It turns out that my spare transmission is a 722.117. It has been sitting in the back yard under a tarp and I never examined it. (My car now has a .118.)

Now I find this fascinating, as my old 240d that it came from did not have the white vacuum valve on the VC. I know that. In fact, I am quite sure that I never had the modulator hooked up to vacuum on that car. It shifted beautifully, albeit late out first, but it was excellent otherwise.

And now for my really, really BIG slice of crow pie:

I finally pulled the pan on the transmission now in the car. At the bottom of the pan were metal shavings, one intact machine screw, the head of a second screw and some unidenfitied metallic pasty substance.

With what I found, I decided there was nothing to be lost pulling out the valve body, given that one screw was dangling out the side of it.... A rod that appears to have been repaired with JB Weld. The second screw, whose head has been badly chewed. More evidence of the pasty substance. I will attach pics later... right now I can't do it from this machine.

So yes, had I stuck to the routine, I would have been where I am now (given that I can only work on it on weekends) about month ago.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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