What's inside that MANN oil filter? Taking it to bits... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tangofox007 · #31 01-12-2014, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Anything that passes through the bypass filter goes into the sump and is then refiltered by the paper section of the filter before going into the engine.

Anything that leaves the sump goes through the oil pump on the way to the oil filter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

I'm not sure people have a good understanding of how the MB bypass filter works. Maybe that's the real problem.

I suspect that you are right.

cooljjay · #32 01-12-2014, 02:46 PM

But wouldn't a wix filter be better at filtering since they are pleated with a finer material? Agreed they do clog faster if your engine is super gunky as mine is/was..

gsxr · #33 01-12-2014, 02:51 PM

With Fram's reputation, I would not want to buy any of their products, period. What's wrong with the OE filters? I still haven't seen a reason why Fram is better than OE.

The FSM's are not clear on the filter sections, they never directly state which portion is bypass. However by inference, they state the pleated section is full-flow, so the cotton portion must be the bypass. The wording is slightly different between the 617 FSM, old 603 print manual, and new 603 (WIS)manuals.

The all-pleated filter is intended for use during the engine break-in period only, and is supposed to be replaced with the "combination" element after 1000 miles.

Time for some reading - also see attached PDF.

617 manual:
http://esp.iki.fi/w123/w123CD2/Program/Engine/617/18-005.pdf

New 603 (WIS) manual:
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/602_603/18-0999a.pdf

Old 603 manual - see attachment.

Diesel911 · #34 01-12-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

So the filters without the bypass cotton section like the Wix (100% pleated?) is less effective?

Speaking of the Full Flow part of the filters.
The Wix with the all pleated paper Element has a 32 nominal micron Filter level and is an all full flow filter.

The next worst is 27 nominal Microns.

The lowest Euro Filter is 22 Microns

The Baldwin/Hastings is 18 microns

DeliveryValves list of Filter Microns
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=247597&highlight=Bosch+Oil+filters&page=3

gsxr · #35 01-12-2014, 04:03 PM

Are any of these supposed to be superior to the OE Geniune Mercedes filters...?

Diesel911 · #36 01-12-2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Anything that passes through the bypass filter goes into the sump and is then refiltered by the paper section of the filter before going into the engine.

I'm not sure people have a good understanding of how the MB bypass filter works. Maybe that's the real problem.

Do we really need 2 active threads on this subject?

I think this actually brings us up to at least 5 Threads with a smattering of smaller shorter threads on the subject.

Diesel911 · #37 01-12-2014, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

So the filters without the bypass cotton section like the Wix (100% pleated?) is less effective?

The Wix is even less effective even if you only compare the Full Flow Section. 32 Nominail Microns of Flitration compared to the Baldwin/Hastings (that is also an all pleated cellulose element) 18 Nominal Microns of filtration.

The Cotting Gin bypass section on those Filters that have that is up for grabs as none of the Filter Companies know what level of filtration that section Has.

One of Our Members that works in a Lab said that they use Cotton as a Filter. But, but I am guessing that it needs to be pure Cotton and tightly packed to work properly.
Pure Cotton never and tightly Packed maybe is the case in the Filter people have cut apart.

In fact there are Oil Filters used on other Mercedes that have no bypass Filter section but are filled with tighty packed pure cotton. So when done properly it can work.
I think it was BrianCaralton that spoke of that.

The above mentioned tighty packed pure Cotton Filter was a Full Flow Filter. The lowest micron Full Flow Filter that I found for any Engine was 15 Nominal Micrions. To me that means in order to function as a Full Flow Oil Filter the pure Cotton is tighty packed it was 15 Nominal Microns or above in filtration.

Diesel911 · #38 01-12-2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Is the cotton the bypass filter section? I've read that soot is too small for most oil filters. The only kind that are effective on soot is the toilet paper type bypass filter.

I think Amsoil would dissagree with that.

I don't think any Filter eliminates Soot entirely.

Also I have read that People are now believing that too fine of a Filter might filter out the additives.
One Ad said that a Filter had 3 absolute Microns of Filtration and that it would not filter out properly made Additives in the Oil.

The Filter that I am using in the Pic is a 0.5 Nominal Micron Filter. Perhaps not as good as the Amsoil one but when I bought a box of them over 4 years ago they were less than $3 each.
Anyway if it is not a perfect Filter it at least is filtering way better they the Stock Filter will.

The close up of the Used Filter Element after it had set for 30 minutes to let the Oil Drain out of it. The Cotton string appears to have some soft mushy stuff on the exterior of the Filter. I believe that is Soot.

gsxr · #39 01-12-2014, 04:37 PM

For Mercedes OM61x/60x diesel engines, the filter is not designed to remove soot. That is why the oil looks black. The oil must be Cx-rated so it will suspend the soot. The oil change interval must be frequent enough to ensure the soot does not fall out of suspension, which will drastically increase engine wear. Oil analysis with soot measurement will show the soot levels for your engine at a given mileage. That topic will get into another 5+ threads though...

Diesel911 · #40 01-12-2014, 04:45 PM

For a comparison of Full Flow Sections and construction of the Baldwin/Hastings Oil Filter and the Mann.

I have some Mann Oil Filters that have the Mercedes Part Number on them. Oddly they came in CAM2 Oil Filter Boxes.

Diesel911 · #41 01-12-2014, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

But wouldn't a wix filter be better at filtering since they are pleated with a finer material? Agreed they do clog faster if your engine is super gunky as mine is/was..

Not he WIX 51385 (actually listed as a racing filter) for the 617.957 Engine at 32 nominal microns.
It will passs larger particles than than any of the other Euro made Oil Filters and especially the Baldwin/Hastings.

Diesel911 · #42 01-12-2014, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Are any of these supposed to be superior to the OE Geniune Mercedes filters...?

I have some Mann Filter for a 671.952 that have the Mercedes Part Number and Star on them. So I am assuming that Mann is the Orifingal Equipment Oil Filter you would get from Mercedes.
Mann-
Full flow section 27 microns
Noted here by M-shop member SUNRG in this Bypass section of the Filter is undetermined as the company does not know what level of filtration it has.

Baldwin P102/Hastings LF380
Full flow section 18 microns
By pass section is 15 microns

The Baldwin Hastings has a finer filtating Full Flow Section.
Since the Mann Factory does not now what filtration level the Bypass section of they Filter is it is unknown if the Mann Bypass section filters finer than the Baldwin/Hastings does.

You can see the pic I posted in a previousl thread showing that the Baldwin/Hastings Filter has a much larger Full Flow Section and more robust construction.

Even the Mahle Oil Filter has a better performing full flow section than the Mann Filter. However the Mahle Filters seem to be made in various places. Austria and the Cezch Republic are 2 that I know of.
Full flow section 22 microns
Noted M-shop member moonlite on this
By pass is undetermined.

OM617YOTA · #43 01-12-2014, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

What are you talking about? You make it sound like you can shake a new filter and have dirt fall out of it.

While I didn't say that, it is almost literally true. There is not adequate sealing on the bypass section to keep the filtering "media" from being carried out of the bypass filter by the oil. There was no seal at the top of the central core between the filtering media and the end cap. The finer cloth covering on the central core did not cover all the holes in the central core. It is 100% possible for dirt to be pumped out of the filtering "media" and carried by the oil into the oil pan. Look at the pictures, or better yet tear one of these filters apart yourself. I am not stating opinion, I am stating fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Anything that passes through the bypass filter goes into the sump and is then refiltered by the paper section of the filter before going into the engine.

Everything that's in the oil sump has to go through the oil pump BEFORE it goes through the full flow filter. Do YOU want dirt and dead bugs going through your oil pump?

ROLLGUY · #44 01-12-2014, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

Meh. Not terribly impressed -- as OM617Yota's photos more clearly show this thing has dirt in it. Filtering dirt with dirt seems pointless, especially if the thing isn't fully sealed, which it isn't at the bottom of the large cylinder. Here is OM617Yota's description of what's in the filter. He has better pictures of the junk.

If someone gets them for me, I'll do it

.

From the other thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Exactly. Why wring your hands and lose sleep over five bucks per filter, when a replacement used engine is easily $1-$2k...? Seriously, WTH?

OM60x filter p/n 601-180-01-09 is $14 MSRP and can be found at the various OE interweb dealers for $9-$11... for Genuine Mercedes. Aftermarket is... uh-oh... $9-$11 at Pelican, and OE is $14 at Pelican.

It ain't worth the debate, just use OE.

Why would there be small bits of metal in the OE filter? Yes the cotton looks cleaner, but it still looks like cotton gin waste to me, and not a good thing to filter oil through because of the metal. I could be wrong on this, as maybe the cloth on both sides of the cotton core may not allow the dirt and metal bits to get in the engine. I have been using NAPA filters with gold colored pleats the entire length of the filter. I don't care for their top Oring, as it does not fit tight on the cover, and is a little tricky to hold on while sliding the cover in place. After looking at that junk even in the OE filter, I will stick with the NAPA GOLD filter.....Rich

tangofox007 · #45 01-12-2014, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

Why would there be small bits of metal in the OE filter?

Could it be because the filter was doing what a filter is supposed to do?