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  #76  
Old 07-25-2002, 09:46 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Some interesting points made here...
Quote:
It would not start without trying it a dozen times or so. At that point it had 150,000 km! I've never had a Benz, any Benz that was even broken in well at 150,000 km.
Larry I need to show you the service records on my car...lol...by 150KM(93K) my car had a stck of repair tickets probably 3 inches thick and from that times to now has had about 20K and another 3 inches of reciepts from the dealer...needless to say...the whole service staff at Crown MB knows my by name...lol

but part of the pleasure in driving a benz is that it IS a benz...a few years ago I traded my 1992 300D for an Acura Legend...I hated the car honestly...kept it a year and sold it...never had any problems...but I did n't like the way it drove,doors closed...and too much over priced ACCORD feel to it...it was a limited edition 6 speed manual trans and I had no problem selling it...BUT I never really liked it...this car I own now has been without question the biggest pain in the A%& I have ever driven...but with the door closers,woodwork,incredible ride..etc..I smile everyday when I drive it...so I ask myself..if it makes me happy what is that worth?


Warren
1992 300SD 144K
Columbus Ohio
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  #77  
Old 07-25-2002, 10:15 AM
LarryBible
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turnne1,

Maybe I've just been lucky. As long as my luck holds out, however, I will continue with MB products.

Steve,

Great post!

Have a great day,
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  #78  
Old 07-25-2002, 11:00 AM
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Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
I think you have been lucky Larry...

as I think the more complicated features in the S-class cars..one as even as old as mine are costly to repair...and my car is not as isolated case....the regional MB service rep told me that he still gets manly complaints on the 140 cars..mostly he said becuase of the expense to repair...but I have heard the new 220 is a bear also...the cooling fans in the seats(which I hear makes sweating legs on leather a thing of the past) are $1000/each seat to repair...and yes I have seen these being fixed at the dealer under warranty...but it stands to reason...the more complicated something in the more statistically it will have problems...so does that mean you give up all the creature comforts...I for one don't think so.

as for the JD power survey....all I can say is that I think the japanese luxury cars..for example LS 400 can blow the doors off a 140 in terms or reliability...BUT i for one have never liked the way those cars drove..I have tried twice to buy one...and I just don't like them...as practical as they seem to be


Warren
1992 300SD 144K
Columbus Ohio
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  #79  
Old 07-25-2002, 11:51 AM
LarryBible
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Whatever. As I say with near a million miles of "good luck," I'll keep playing these lottery numbers until they don't work any more.

Have a great day,
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  #80  
Old 07-25-2002, 01:08 PM
davidmash's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 11,730
going down hill

My dad bought a C320 last year. They drive very little but he had his share of problems. The Dealers in LA were not very forth coming or helpful.

The car had incorrect motor mounts installed at the factory and they collapsed. The engine went into safe mode and reduced power. The dealer never told my dad what happened, just that they replaced the mounts. I have a buddy who is a MB shop manager here in Dallas and he told me the real story. The key fobs also malfunctioned and would not hold the memory settings. The battery died 2 times. The seat bottoms wrinkled up (only 4K on the odo). The engine skipped. The tranny had a faint whine. The lid for the first aid kit was warped. The cover in front of the shift lever was not aligned properly (dealer never could / did fix those last two). The brake disks already had a substantial ridge on them (again, less than 4k)

My dad ended up getting MB to buy the car back at 4k and 1 year old for full price but only after a considerable bit of fighting. He has a friend in MB in Germany who forced the issue. Now I will grant that my dad is not the easiest customer but he has been in the car repair business for 50 years and knows what something should or should not do and for $47k that C320 was a piece of crap. When we ended up having MB buy it back the regional rep for MB told my dad not to ever by another MB. I could not believe my ears. My dad ended up going to another dealer out side that reps region and bought an E320 Special Edition (so far he is very satisfied).

I have a 1987 190 16V that I have placed close to $10k in. My folks who had it prior to me hardly drove it and as a consequence did not have to do much maintenance to it. I drive quite a bit now and stuff started failing left and right. New trans, shocks front and rear, condenser, control arm, drag link, tie rods, cruise amp/actuator, exhaust Granted had the car been driven these expenses would have been spread over several years instead of a year and a half but still, that is not what I expect from MB.

I had a 1977 240D that had 125k that just ran and ran. I yearn for the good old days.
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  #81  
Old 07-25-2002, 02:15 PM
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Many of us "yearn for the good old days" but with the advent of leasing and the consumer pressure for all these gadgets in cars there are fairly few customers with the foresight to pay for the great machine a 240D was/is because they are intending to keep it for twenty five years.

Leasing takes the cost of fixing stuff out of the equation. And eliminates the perspective of ownership after the warranty period. So people lease cars loaded with junk, and if you don't offer a car with all the gadgets you won't sell any cars to leasing companies. Or most of the other customers out there either as the gadgets have become the basic allure of the car, not the underlying machine. As I noted earlier, the basic underlying machine from all sources has improved drastically, and MB would be hard pressed to bring something as superior as the 240D was in its day to the market today. So they are forced to add mechanically complex cupholders and other plain junk to the cars today just to stay abreast of Toyota and Honda and the likes.

While we yearn for the good old days, MB doubts we would actually buy a $30,000 C class with no junk in it, so they don't make it available. I am not sure they are not correct on this one. It is easy to yearn, but I think relatively few of us would buy a car with the MB star on it and accept it with no electric seats, electric windows, automatic multi-zone climate control system, and bizzare cupholders anymore. Yet it is this stuff that fails over the long haul, or even the short haul as we have all experienced and complain about.

Just my next $0.02 installment. Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #82  
Old 07-25-2002, 02:16 PM
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smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
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MB is doing something wrong if we're arguing amongst ourselves about the quality of the recent crop of MB products.

JD Power aside, I think there is more forum following for the idea that quality is down than anyone can dismiss as a statistical anomaly. Way more then there would have been 15 years ago.

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL

Last edited by sixto; 07-25-2002 at 02:30 PM.
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  #83  
Old 07-25-2002, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Thats an interesting statement....??.....I thought as a whole the relaibility of autos was better than it was 15 years ago?


Warren
1992 300SD 144K
Columbus Ohio
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  #84  
Old 07-25-2002, 03:19 PM
LarryBible
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I agree with turnnel on this one. I remember when the 123 came out, people said that it was just junk compared to their earlier MB's. My wife had a 250 at the time and everyone said it was better than a new one, MB was just going down the tube. I still hear that with each new car introduced even though they seem to me to get better.

The new V6 is an absolute engineering and production masterpiece. The cars are stronger for their weight than they used to be due to the use of the latest technology.

The technology that is downplayed in this thread is the gadgetry. Except for there being a recall on the IR/RF key for my C Class I have had no problem at all with any of this gadgetry. And they stood good for that and it was really no trouble at all for me. They handled it well.

There are always horror stories like the one told above about his Dad's C320. I fully expect that all brands have them regardless of what country they are designed and built in.

I would have no problem buying a new C Class without the gadgetry, you know, the way they are designed for their home market. In Germany, crank up windows and manual seats are common. That much less to go wrong. But, as my car stands now, there will be no complaints until the gadgetry gives trouble. I have absolutely no reason to believe that it will give trouble.
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  #85  
Old 07-25-2002, 04:06 PM
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smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
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Then I stand corrected.

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL
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  #86  
Old 07-25-2002, 08:04 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rocklin CA
Posts: 65
Tried to post this a few days ago but it got "lost".

Let's remember what these W140's were designed to do. 100MPH reliably for 200K miles. Yes, I have my share of repair tickets like everyone else, but I knew that when I purchased the car. When I rate reliability, I want it reliably to perform at speed.
I have great feel, control and comfort for 4 adults at long drives up and down I5. SAcramento to LA in less than 5 hours. I can't fly in that time counting all the airport hassles.

Since I bought the car, I haven't flown with the family to LA. We make the drive. There are thing faster than this beast, but nothing gets there faster in more comfort and safety. Even my wife will take it up to speed(100MPH) on this drive because it just seems that is it's "natural" cruising speed.

Wep, my window failed to go up in the back the other day, 150 bucks later it was working. Worth every penny to have this baby in the garage.

Oh yea, there isn't another "production" car on the road I'd want to own. I "love" this car.

I will admit however, you have to be able to afford it.
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96 S500 79K (great white whale)
98 E430 80K Sports Package (gray ghost)
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  #87  
Old 07-26-2002, 09:38 AM
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Right on! Ken
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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
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33 years MB technician
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  #88  
Old 07-26-2002, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Quote:
Oh yea, there isn't another "production" car on the road I'd want to own. I "love" this car.
I agree with that one....you have to put a price on how much it gives you enjoyment everyday....has my car been a pain...absolutely...but like you Ken I enjoy it every day...I have owned a 126 and a 124 prior,each with its own attrubutes...but I think the 140(and 129) are definitely pinnacle MBs


Warren
1992 300SD 144K
Columbus Ohio
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