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  #16  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:47 PM
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Location: Wilmington, NC
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Read this. It's for a 123, but the lock assembly is the same.

http://dieselgiant.com/repairignitionlock.htm
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  #17  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:51 PM
whunter's Avatar
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,354
The links from post #2.

Ignition Cylinder Tumbler replacement; mixed diesel/gas

W124 key cylinder removal without key
W124 key cylinder removal without key

W123 Diesel: Ignition Troubleshooting
http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~jjs5772/W123/

Pictorial on how to replace your ignition lock with a stuck or broken key.
Pictorial on how to replace your ignition lock with a stuck or broken key.

I am trying to R&R ignition switch
I am trying to R&R ignition switch

Stuck Key
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/29384-stuck-key.html#post158082

Steering wheel locked, ignition will not turn
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/56742-steering-wheel-locked-ignition-will-not-turn.html#post340838

hotwiring a 124 and ignition lock replacement
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/90251-hotwiring-124-ignition-lock-replacement.html#post594843

Ignition lock broken - Help needed
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/37927-190e-ignition-lock-broken-help-needed.html#post214425

URGENT!!Please help with Ignition lock!!!!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/55804-190e-urgent-please-help-ignition-lock.html#post333611

ignition switch
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/52559-190e-ignition-switch.html#post308994

Ignition Tumbler replacement... QUICK RESPONSE NEEDED PLEASE!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/36481-ignition-tumbler-replacement-quick-response-needed-please.html#post204708

Alaskan needs info on R&R ignition 92 TE 300
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/114286-alaskan-needs-info-r-r-ignition-92-te-300-a.html#post809485

What is the trick to remove the tumbler?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/110367-what-trick-remove-tumbler.html#post769549

ready to cut ignition tumbler
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/42867-ready-cut-ignition-tumbler.html#post246167

How Do I Drill Out Ignition?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/109270-how-do-i-drill-out-ignition.html#post758374

Help!!! Ignition stuck...wont turn!!!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/17186-help-ignition-stuck-wont-turn.html#post85773

Ignition Key Will Not Turn - Help
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/82226-ignition-key-will-not-turn-help.html#post528401

Ignition tumbler removal 95 W140
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/118698-ignition-tumbler-removal-95-w140.html#post847828

300E Ignition Tumbler Removal-Help please
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/123618-300e-ignition-tumbler-removal-help-please.html#post887639

300e Ignition Cylinder Tumbler replacement HELP
300e Ignition Cylinder Tumbler replacement HELP

W126 91 300SE ignition tumbler removal
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/36813-w126-91-300se-ignition-tumbler-removal.html#post206766

W126 ignition lock troubles
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/11563-w126-ignition-lock-troubles.html#post50450

'94 c280 ignition tumbler stuck...
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/42514-94-c280-ignition-tumbler-stuck.html#post243859

Ignition switch woes on my 560!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/123962-ignition-switch-woes-my-560-a.html#post890867

Ignition tumber W126
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/50368-ignition-tumber-w126.html#post293368

Gonna cut W123 ignition lock...key won't turn
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/39531-gonna-cut-w123-ignition-lock-key-wont-turn.html#post225222

126 frozen steering lock/tumbler removal (fairly easy, but long)
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/58636-126-frozen-steering-lock-tumbler-removal-fairly-easy-but-long.html#post355575

How not to remove the ignition lock! Butchery at its finest.
How not to remove the ignition lock! Butchery at its finest.

Wiring Schematics for W201 ignition switch
Wiring Schematics for W201 ignition switch

R129 - Ignition switch replacement "post #21."
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-sl-discussion-forum/145316-removal-ignition-switch-barrel-post1138367.html

Ignition Cylinder, Switch, or Housing?
Ignition Cylinder, Switch, or Housing?
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  #18  
Old 10-15-2006, 07:03 PM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 351
Frustration mounts...

Thanks to all of you, especially whunter, who have responded to me. Whunter found MANY more threads than I came across on my own. I guess he knows how to use the search function much better than I do.

To the point. Despite reading, over the last three days, EVERY one of the posts on this problem that I can find, I have not been able to remove the tumbler assembly. Some of the posts are contradictory, but that is attributable to different years and models. I have printed out the ones that I felt were most applicable. I have a ream of paper beside me in the car as I refer to different threads to try and solve the problem.

I am talking about a 1981 300 SD. 126 body style. My ignition has only one hole in which to stick a wire.

Some posts have said to put the key at the second postion. I feel this must be wrong, as the wire can barely be inserted at that spot.

Most posts have suggested having the key at the first postion. When I do this I am able to insert the wire about 1", not the 3" that some of the posts call for. I'm not sure if this is the right postion, as even a few degrees left or right of the first postion still allows the wire to be inserted. In fact, I can have the wire inserted about 1" and still turn the key a couple of degrees in either direction.

Some posts call for using the wire to apply pressure while pulling straight out on the key. Some call for the black collar to be unscrewed CCW while applying pressure with the wire. I'm not sure which task it is I should really be struggling to accomplish, so I have tried both, to no avail.

I have used different thicknesses of wire (all with bevels on to end) and I have toiled with them over several hours to the point that I have a blister on my thumb from exerting pressure on the wire.

Perhaps I am being over cautious in even undertaking this task, as the key has only bound up on me once and I was able to turn it again after a little jiggling and persistance. Since then I have only had to use the key a few times to start the car. I currently have the car parked with the key in the first postion, as I figured that if I put this repair off it will be a lot harder and costly at a much more inconveinent time.
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  #19  
Old 10-15-2006, 07:11 PM
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I used a long 1.3mm angled hex wrench on mine. I tried wires but none of them small enough were stiff enough.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2006, 07:19 PM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
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Location: Vero Beach, FL
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Did yours have one or two holes? How far in were you able to insert the wrench? At what position did you have the key?
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  #21  
Old 10-15-2006, 09:03 PM
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Its position 1. And it was a while ago. If the collar doesn't unscrew CCW then you haven't hit the mark. Wiggle the key a little as your sticking it in, you'll feel it when your in the right spot.

The position 1, position 2 stuff is due to some people calling the off, key out position, position 1 instead of 0.
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'84 300D Turbo 240k (Anthracite Grey) - Garage Queen
'83 300D Turbo 220k (Orient Red) - WVO - Wifes daily driver

I'm not a certified mechanic, but I did stay at a HolidayInn Express last night.
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  #22  
Old 10-16-2006, 12:18 PM
Running on pure optimism.
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 222
in the meantime...

firemediceric-
I have the same problem with my 300SD - a 126 - but however un-wisely, I have chosen to ignore it for the time being.

Now, I'm no mechanic, but I got the tumbler out. Take the black plastic cover off. Turn the key to number 2 and slide your paper clip in the hole. Turn the black collar ccw. If the collar is coming out but the tumbler isn't, you don't have the paper clip on the right spot. Keep messing with it. That was seriously the worst part. when the paper clip is right, the collar and tumbler should come out together. And there you go.

In the meantime, you can do what I do if you don't want to use a screwdriver or buy a new tumbler (at best) or a new ignition lock (at worst). Before you turn your car off, just turn your wheel at least 60 degrees to the right or left, then turn it off and take your key out. If the steering wheel is turned, it won't automatically lock. I know the mechs will advise against this, but if you're willing to use a screwdriver, this is at least a nicer looking temporary solution.
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  #23  
Old 10-16-2006, 05:31 PM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 351
Angry It has beaten me

I have the desire to fix this correctly, even though it has not become a true problem yet. My reasoning was that I would rather nip a potential problem in the bud, rather than have it turn into something more troublesome and more costly down the road.

After three days of exhaustive reading and a few hours of fruitless labor last night, I have spent the better part of today fiddling with various paper clips, wire of every imaginable guage, and allen wrenches. I have ground the ends down at an angle as instructed. I have wiggled the wire, attempted to use force, wiggled the key while inserting the wire and anything else I could think of, or has been suggested to me, to remove the cylinder. All I have succeeded in doing is scratching the black collar all to the devil with the angled needle nose pliers I purchased for this project and getting blisters on my two thumbs.

I cannot get anything to give way. Right now, I am not a fan of German engineering. As I said earlier, the lock has only stuck on one occassion, but I wanted to take care of this now, an ounce of prevention... It has beaten me. I will go back to driving the car and when the day comes that it locks up I will then decide if I have renewed motivation to overcome the then bigger problem. Maybe my frustration and disappointment will be at the same point it is today and I will just opt to torch the car where it is. Just kidding...maybe.
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  #24  
Old 10-16-2006, 05:51 PM
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Are you turning the key? Start with key in off position and turn to on until the wire slips in the little hole.
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2006, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemediceric View Post
Maybe my frustration and disappointment will be at the same point it is today and I will just opt to torch the car where it is. Just kidding...maybe.
Dang, brother, I wish you were in my neck of the woods. I'd come over and show you how I did it. Sounds like you're doing everything right.

Try winmutt's suggestion. Perhaps your plunger is not getting in there far enough to release the detent.

Once you have the tumbler out and in your hand, it all makes sense.

When I fixed my buddies lock, he first handed me a very thin paper clip. Turns out it wasn't thick enough to push the detent all the way down.

If worse comes to worse, call AAA and have a locksmith snatch it out. Or head to your local indy Mercedes mechanic. Since the lock still turns, it shouldn't cost too much to have them take it out for you.

Good luck.
Bill
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  #26  
Old 10-17-2006, 08:34 AM
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Ok, here's the lock face showing positions zero, one and two. Position one (the one nearest the top of this picture) is the one you want.



Here's a very blurry picture of the paperclip inserted in the hole with the key in position one.



Here's a top view showing how far the paper clip needs to go before it pushes on the detent.



And here's a picture showing the actual detent. That tab facing you in the picure is in a channel in the lock housing. When the paper clip is inserted properly, the tab is pushed down, allowing the black ring to turn -- by hand. I needed no wrenches to turn it one I got the plunger to drop all the way down.


Hope this helps. Please report back with your progress.

Bill

edit: Thanks to dieselgiant for these pictures!!
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Last edited by Bill Ladd; 10-17-2006 at 05:28 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-17-2006, 11:21 AM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 351
Bill,
Thank you for the pics. From what I can see, I'm doing everything correctly, which makes it even more frustrating.

As you allude to, I really don't think I need the pliers to force the black ring to turn. I can wiggle the ring. I'm sure it's the tab doing it's job in not allowing me to turn it.

I suspect that for whatever reason, the tab is just not being pushed down despite the force I am applying. I soaked the lock with lubricant, hoping that would help. I may mess around with it again tomorrow.

If the key does bind up again (as I said earlier, it has only happened once) I will start calling locksmiths and mechanics to see what my options are.
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  #28  
Old 10-18-2006, 10:00 AM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 351
Happy Ending

This is a long post, but it explains the outcome and my errors, as well as names an indy that came to my rescue.

When leaving work this morning, the key stuck on me and would not turn. I had to make a stop on the way home and it stuck again, just a little. At this point I am paranoid about turning the car off and removing the key.

I went to a local indy and asked how much he would charge to remove the cylinder for me. The shop owner came out and looked at the car, which was still running. He claimed that it's a 2 hour job and that without the new assembly in hand ready to install, I will not be able to move the car until the new parts are in. He told me to figure $500 and he could have the part here in about 3 weeks.

I tried to explain to him everything that you all have been kind enough to share with me, but he told me it was all wrong. So off I went to another indy shop just down the road.

This gentleman told me he charges one hour, as he needs to take the knee panel off to remove the plastic trim piece around the key cylinder. He claims that without accessing it from the back that the retention tabs will brake off. I informed him that they must have been broken by a previous owner, as I had followed advice from here and was told to pry the piece off with a screw driver. When I had done this days ago I had found someone had glued the piece back into place. I guess someone had removed it incorrectly in the past and broke the tabs, just as the indy said would happen.

He had me remove the trim, which I pried off. He chuckled seeing the glue I had used to reattach the piece.

He then showed me how to remove the cylinder. He did it in a matter of seconds, he took the time to show and explain things to me, and only charged me $20. I paid him double. He was fantastic to stop working on the Porsch he had on the lift and to take the time to attend to my problem and courteous enough to educate me. The shop is K&B Foreign Car Service in Vero Beach, FL. I went back to the first shop with my key cylinder in hand and let him know what I thought of him.

Once he had the cylinder out my errors were obvious. I had been attempting to insert the wire with the key turned to the first dimple in the black collar. I made this mistake because of some posts calling postion "0" position "I" and position "I" position "II". My misunderstanding, despite the pics on Diesel Giant showing the correct position, was furthered do the fact that at position "I" I was able to insert the wire about an inch. The wire was going into a space on the cylinder between the portion that turns and the outer shell of the cylinder itself. This explains the post I made earlier about being able to turn the key a couple of degress in either direction even with the wire inserted.

I had made attempts to insert the wire at the correct postion, but could never get it to go in more than 1/8". Once the cylinder was removed I saw that this was due to needing to angle the wire up ever so slightly to get it to go into the hole.

Now I know. The education was not too expensive, although I did pull most of my hair out and blistered my thumbs.

I will be ordering the new cylinder in the next couple of days, as I have to show up at the dealer, over an hour away, in person with my paperwork to do so. Not conveinent.
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  #29  
Old 10-18-2006, 11:12 AM
Running on pure optimism.
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 222
so...

I'm assuming you have the tumbler out and are using a screwdriver? If so, you should try turning the key in tumbler with the tumbler in your hand. If it turns freely, it's most likely not the tumbler - or cylinder, as you may call it - that needs to be replaced. If it does stick, that's good. The new tumbler should be under $100 from the dealer.

If the key turns with no problem, you probably need a new ignition lock assembly, which is quite a bit more expensive and pretty difficult for a beginner - such as myself - to install.

Here's a link to the thread I started when I had this same problem:

Replacing (?) the steering lock
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  #30  
Old 10-18-2006, 01:43 PM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 351
JimZ,
Thanks for the info. I will try the key in the removed tumbler to see how well it works.

By way of further elimination, if the problem is not the tumbler won't the problem persist while I use the screw driver in place of a key, or does the problem only manifest itself when a tumbler is in place and being used?
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